Ok. I admit it. Tongue firmly in cheek. But consider this, the Geran-2 drone Russia that is attacking and scrambling the power plants and electrical systems of Ukraine shares a remarkable resemblance to the American RQ-170 stealth drone that Iran captured way back in 2011. While the Geran 2 is much smaller than the RQ-170, the two drones do share some design similarities. In other words, is Iran/Russia using U.S. technology to bomb Ukraine?
Iran’s capture of the CIA drone intact in 2011 was followed by an aggressive reverse engineering effort to determine and replicate the capabilities of the CIA drone. This was a major blow to U.S. intelligence. It is still not clear how it fell into the hands of the Iranians. Was the drone brought down by Iran’s electronic warfare capabilities? Or, did Iran have help from the Russians or someone else in tracking and snatching the drone from the CIA? All still a mystery.
Both Russia and Iran are being rather cagey about whose drone is being used in Ukraine. Regardless of its origin, the delta-shaped drone is proving difficult to detect and destroy. Ukrainian officials claims that they have shot down dozens rings rather hollow as smoke clouds–the aftermath of successful drone strikes–hover over Kiev, Lviv, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa and other Ukrainian cities.
I have heard several Western “pundits” in recent days describe the Geran-2 as nothing short of a flying piece of elephant excrement. In other words, a poorly engineered, unreliable piece of gadgetry. Funny, huh? That a lousy, frail piece of machinery like the Geran 2 is beating the living crap out of Ukraine’s air defense system. The Government in Kiev is so desperate that they are begging Ukrainian citizens to rush to the streets with loaded rifles if they hear an approaching drone and try to shoot it down. The Ukrainians apparently do not understand the principle of gravity–i.e., a bullet shot into the air will return to earth with sufficient force to kill, maim and damage. If thousands of Ukrainian citizens heed this call, I suspect there will be a significant increase in gunshot wounds in the coming days.
The most cogent explanation I recall from the drone episode was something about spoofing the GPS to indicate that it was gaining altitude so it kept descending until a safety override caused it to land instead of crashing, thus the lack of damage. Sounds Tom Clancyish but it sounded simple enough that it could perhaps be true.
Maybe Iran/Russia used the Stupor to ground the USA drone untouched and reverse-engineered it? Maybe it was the first testing of the Stupor way back?
https://tass.com/politics/1523625
I also recall several tomahawks in Syria were landed, too. Undamaged. GPS spoofing was said to be used, too.
there is a more detailed general explanation from iranian sources , of course they left out the details of their operations but basically the iranian spoof the drone into thinking it is near it’s base on kandahar , thus automatically activating local control (when the drone needs to land the control will be switched to operator in the kandahar airfield to prevent satellite control lag).
The local control was usurped by the iranian and thus the drone under iranian control was landed on a desert (with the gear still up). Once they landed the ground team with flatbeds carry the drone out from the area quickly to prevent bombing by USAF.
The US govt at that time said they dont want to bomb the drone which is bullshit since the drone wasnt there anymore.
The ground team have to saw one part of the wing so it can be carried on the flatbed trailer.
A d you’ve heard of the GPS issues in the Dallas area near Fort Hood going on now? Spoofing or straight jamming?
Donetsk and Lugansk had a hand held device that RF controlled drones and made them land. It looked like a sci fi EM hand held rifle. Made using duct tape. This was on rumble circa 2022.
I am sure Iran and Russia had far more powerful facilities, ground based, years ago.
a big chunk of elephant shit assembled from dishwasher chips. Western media never cease to amaze with their ingenuity to underestimate Russian capabilities, there is a fantasy that everything electronic applied to the military field is of the latest generation and of alien origin, a kamikaze drone or loitering bomb is a disposable weapon whose useful life It deserves to be built with the cheapest and fastest materials to get as well as its electronic components. What would people in the West think if we say that the f35 computer is not more powerful than any online player’s computer?
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Joseph Goebbels
They apparently forgot who was their uber driver for going to space a few years running.
With all due respect, similarities? Really?
– The US RQ is a flying wing with radar evading design, the Geran 2 is a basic delta design ; its similarity points to the 1960 French Mirage but its winglets are new: neither the Mirage no the RQ have these.
– The RQ is propelled by a turbofan located above the center of the plane. The Geran by a propeller engine at its end.
– The RQ is an observation drone. The Geran is a suicide drone.
Yeah, both are drone. Period.
Are you really this obtuse? Seriously, you want to make the argument that the drone Iran developed used none of the technology they gleaned from the RQ-170?
Larry, your insights are usually spot on, but this time I would argue you missed a few marks. (1) Shooting up in the air does nor result in bullets pouring down at lethal velocities. Resistance of air sees to that. (2) Shooting down drones loaded with explosives over residential areas may be a dumb idea for a different reason… though when an apartment buildings go up in flames, Ukraine scores another media victory. (3) So far, there is no indication that “geran” is an import. Could be home grown. There are plenty of “geran” fragments (with handwritten signs such as “For Belgorod”) on Ukrainian telegram channels by now. I have not seen anything indicating Persian origins. Have you?
German Media: „ Between 1985 and 1992, 38 people died from falling pistol or rifle bullets during New Year’s Eve in the Los Angeles area alone.“
Old mate of mine was an anti aircraft gunner in the East End of London during the Blitz. Shoot straight up, full magazine 5 or something. Then run like hell, dive into a bunker. Shrapnel etc used to crash down and deadly. Said it was very hard to shoot down large German bombers.
Small drones would be next to impossible I would think.
Just a note : it is common knowledge that Arabs get killed from falling bullets as a result of gentleman celebrating across town.
A lump of lead is a lump of lead. A bang on the head is a bang on the head. Just sayin.
PS you are right about bullets fired line of sight are terminal.
American Media trustworthiness…. sample- https://www.zerohedge.com/political/catalog-deceit-list-jb-pritzkers-falsehoods-whoppers
Telegram Chanel’s ? Saw an alleged Russian missile shot down over a city. Big flash and explosion. Then the vid froze the end. A bit suss.
During the Blitz in London, British air defences could do nothing about the German bombers. The population was so incensed that Churchill had to set-up gun emplacements in parks – Clapham, Hampstead etc. knowing full well that the shells would kill more Londoners. But the people were happy because their leadership was doing something. And then the truth never came out fully after the war as the Blitz Spirit became a badge of honour not to be sullied. Bizarre.
I saw the same vid with no trail from any SAM visible. Either it is fake(to increase morale much like the ghost of kiev etc) or was hit with AAA fire or bullets. Its curious as i couldn’t hear any gun fire in the footage .
Already proved by Myth Busters: 9mm fired *vertically” cannot kill you when it falls. But round fired at angle can certainly kill: many examples. Telemetry is the rule.
And AR15 military grade rifle round travels from 1000 yards or 1.6 Km’s before falling @ 0.4-0.5 Oz drops from 1.6 Km. That’s gotta hurt or kill you. I Googled it.
Note : not doing the maths on wind, fog smog etc.
The 9mm round will not penetrate an Hawaiian satin shirt if not fired up close. One Digger had six lodged in him. He was moaning about the hospital food. LOL (it’s only what I’ve heard.)
PS Larry is a lot smarter than some folks think.
But if the Myth Busters said so?……. But they did made a cock up of it about windscreens on Australian cars…..( they are not laminated, American cars are, all laminated now. The Myth Buster boys had to apologise for that whoopsie.)
Myth busters also went full fauci meds and wax?
Dude, where did you study physics? What would be the terminal velocity of a midsize bullet if you please? Would it be enough to pierce a fragile human skull? You bet your life, just from the sheer energy acquired from gravity on its way down, friction notwithstanding.
Bottom line is that the Son of Liberty is right and you’re wrong.
PS2/ Whoever assured you that the “For Belgorod” isn’t staged? It’s really naive to believe that slogan written with a sharpie on a fragment of metal.
A bullet rising to a height of 1/2 mile will come to earth with a maximum speed of 273 miles per hour, less air resistance. If it strikes a human being the most likely area would be in the head or neck.
Terminal velocity will not be much affected by air resistance since the mass of a bullet is high compared to it’s area. For example a hunter’s bullet may kill an animal at a distance of up to one mile – if they can hit it.
See https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/free-fall
Unlikely much if anything copied – equipment often appears similar simply because the technology of the time (engines, materials, etc) dictate a similar engineering solution.
My guess is the most valuable info on the CIA plane was the radio and codes therein
I agree with your assesment , there are so many drone shotdown/capture by the iranian defense that it is known as drone graveyard and the western drone tech obviously taken to iranian R&D , dissected to find weakness and copy + improve on them and shared among their drone manufacturers and possibly friendy foreign allies like russia and china.
The following didn’t happen, only, to a US drone but to the Aegis based USS Donald Cook
“On April 10, 2014, the USS Donald Cook entered the waters of the Black Sea and on April 12 a Russian Su-24 tactical bomber flew over the vessel triggering an incident that, according to several media reports, completely demoralized its crew, so much so that the Pentagon issued a protest.
Meanwhile, the Russian Su-24 that buzzed the USS Donald Cook carried neither bombs nor missiles but only a basket mounted under the fuselage which, according to the Russian newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta, contained a Russian electronic warfare device called Khibiny.
As the Russian jet approached the US vessel, the electronic device disabled all radars, control circuits, systems, information transmission, etc. on board the US destroyer. In other words, the all-powerful Aegis system, now hooked up – or about to be – with the defense systems installed on NATO’s most modern ships was shut down, as turning off the TV set with the remote control.”
Source:
https://thesurvivalmovement.com/what-really-happened-to-the-uss-donald-cook-in-the-black-sea/
The USS Donald Cook replaced all its wired circuitry with fiber optics.
It has to do with Magnetic Gravitational force generators, plasma energy basically. The Iranian scientist Mehran Keshe is working with Russians on such research. It brings it back to Maxwell’s neglected physics. This is the only method for space travel and tapping into the magnetic field of the Earth to harness energy.
I have designed model airplanes (i.e. remote controlled), and fly them as well.
Its not really difficult, and there is a mass of documentation and tooling out there that can do significant parts of the work for you.
Creating a RQ-170 however is a LOT of work (they are after all very expensive).
Creating a Geran 2 looks very doable to me, a simple fuselage with two stubby wings attached. Pretty conventional if you ask me.
While the Iranians may have used tech gleaned from the RQ-170 it is by no means necessary. The RQ-170 is simply much more advanced than necessary for the purpose of the Geran 2.
If they used something from the RQ-170, its probably in the electronics/communication. Not from the aerodynamic design.
Btw: You can find a lot of Geran 2 type ‘drones’ at hobby stores all over the world.
Looking at the Geran 2, I am struck by the simplicity. You could design a Geran 2 with a slide rule and some (profile) charts. Building them is also incredibly simple, each part can be build on its own, and then “glued” together in the final assembly. Set up a factory, and you can churn them out by the thousands. Very cheap too. Given that Iran had reasons to assume an attack by the US was likely, it would seem plausible to me that this is what they have done: created/stockpiled thousands of Geran 2’s to swarm the US troops if it ever came to a conflict.
Oh, one more thing: I expect that using an AMRAAM to shoot down such a drone is a loss-proposition economically. I predict that an AMRAAM costs 10 times as much as the Geran 2. Basically any westen AA missile will probably be way more expensive than the Geran 2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_S-70_Okhotnik-B
but how about this one?
I tend to agree.
100 dollars gets you a basic design…
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804242703188.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.436c5b6b9hgbe5&algo_pvid=b671c2f3-a0c6-44b6-893a-35e540dc6002&algo_exp_id=b671c2f3-a0c6-44b6-893a-35e540dc6002-15&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000029154412250%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21215.67%21114.31%21%21%21%21%21%400b0a0ac216661827283086391e5db0%2112000029154412250%21sea&curPageLogUid=YJB3t5UUFfeZ
Larry,
What the Geran reminds me of, more than anything, is Israel’s Harpy kamikaze drone. Very similar layout and propulsion, and it was designed specifically to beat down enemy air defenses.
No, Geran does not look like it derives from the RQ-170 at all. It shouldn’t – that drone was built for a very different mission. They either copied (via use in Syria) or convergently evolved a different design that was a far better fit with their mission.
If they’ve ripped off the RQ-170s, we’ll see that elsewhere. (Sry, phone typing is clumsy)
Is Geran-2 a Class 2 or Class 3 UAS? High Energy Lasers (HEL) will work against those, but you need the power and beam duration. 300KW, 10 seconds is my educated guess. Sending one of these to Ukraine would cause drastic escalation and risk losing it to reverse engineering. HPM might work, depending on how the drones are programmed. Rottsa Ruck!
how will the laser still work when cruise missiles leave kyiv in the dark? I believe that with 2 or 3 dozen kamikaze drones they could overwhelm the remaining air defense of the capital and in the process be destroyed by cruise or hypersonic missiles.
Superb optics, like nothing you’ve ever seen before, are used for HEL. IR too.
At 10 second duration against each drone, defense will quickly get overwhelmed.
HEL’s are a weapon, weapons in general do not depend on civilian infrastructure.
Sure, but they need a generator the size of a small house, so it’s not very hard to ID it, target it, and destroy it… assuming the Ukies don’t sell it to the Russkies first.
Lasers won’t work well. First you need clear weather. Then it must be close, within a mile. And you need several seconds to detect the drone and aim the laser and hope it stays on a steady course. If low flying, a gunner only has just a few seconds and must maintain the laser spot on the exact drone spot for several seconds to burn through. And they can also accidentally blind people nearby.
I wrote about his a few years back.
“Lasers are impractical weapons. This is obvious to anyone who spends an hour reading about the limitations of lasers. They are not useful weapons because of the massive electrical power required, because the atmosphere weakens and distorts the beam, because laser beams spread, and because lasers must maintain a precise spot on a moving target for several seconds to burn through.”
The rest… https://www.g2mil.com/Laser_Scams.htm
Old AAA is the best, and the airburst rounds don’t hit people below.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors_40_mm_Automatic_Gun_L/70
Russia is using the “Peresvet” Mobile Laser Anti-Aircraft and Satellite-Blinding System in its A.O. of the Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peresvet_(laser_weapon)
It is often used to Shoot Down “HIMARS” Artillery Rockets and even 155-MM Shells. Yes, Lasers work better in Clear, Dry Air, but at Megawatt Power levels, at short ranges it doesn’t matter until you have fairly Heavy Rain or Smoke.
It is Powered by a Mobile Nuclear Generator Set, on a Heavy-Equipment style Trailer.
When used with the Beam ‘Unfocused’, it effectively Blinds any Electro-optical Sensors in Satellites. If the Gunner sets Focus to Target, it would Destroy the Sensors. Peresvet Laser Units are also Deployed with “Yars” Mobile Strategic Missile Units out on the Taiga, and with Data Feed from a Monitoring Station, Set and Dazzle enemy Recon Birds as they pass over, preventing the Location and Movements of Missile Trucks from being monitored.
There is no know FUSSA System of similar capabilities.
They cant track the drones as it is, if they could regular AD could take them out, they cant get targeting data in order for the regular weapons to land , how can they track it to land a lazor for your required energy burst time.
I’ll be brief:
1. Yes, these drones can be detected and tracked. They are Class 2 and relatively slow.
2. What is “Regular air defense?
(AD). Missiles or machine guns or cannon fire can be used against them, but odds of kill are slim with many drones in the sky… besides collateral damage problems. You can also kill them air-to-air but slim odds.
3. We built HEL specifically to kill drones. The quality optics are the aiming device for the laser. The difficulty is transferring a radar track to the HEL optics.
4. That’s all I can say here.
German Media translated with Google:
Between 1985 and 1992, 38 people were killed by falling gun bullets in the Los Angeles area alone. “Especially on New Year’s Eve,” warns the ballistician, “people who own guns, legally or illegally, shoot live ammunition. They think that if the bullet comes down, it’s harmless. But it’s not.”
Source: https://www.n-tv.de/wissen/frageantwort/Was-passiert-mit-Salutschuessen-article412932.html
what if those laser fired from ‘never before seen’ HEL with ‘superb’ optics missed a drone and hit ET’s ufo ? might result in interplanetary warfare
There is a tidbit of info (from APA i think) that Russian EW gear was brought to Iran 3 months before the RQ170 hijacking. It is fairly clear the iranian defense have tracked the drone and studied it’s operation before they initiate their hijacking operation. The fools who think stealth is invisble really got their ass handed to them when the drone was landed safely (not downed). Iran showed their IR imaging of the drone to show they can detect and track it using FLIR/IRST which no amount of radar stealth can hide from (even UFO / UAP can be detected using FLIR/IRST as shown from the nimitz footage)
it is obvious iran shared their investigation of the drone and possibly certain components of the drone to russia and/or china.
but back to topic , the small suicide drone are not based on RQ 170 , the iranian have bigger drone that shaped like RQ170 but not this small ‘lawnmower’ drone , that so cheap it is more expensive to expend SAM / MANPADS missile to shoot down this drone..
and these will be swarming and destroying the ‘most powerful military in the world’ aka IDF when Israel and Hezbollah clashed again..
addenum : The iranian clone of RQ170 is Shahed 171 Simorgh
It is a full-size copy of the American RQ-170 UAV captured by Iran in 2011. It is one of two Iranian flying wing UAVs based on the RQ-170, along with the Saegheh, a smaller version, with which it is often confused. The Simorgh is an exact copy of the RQ-170, down to the landing gear and tires. It seems to be built mostly out of fiberglass. One researcher says the weight, engine, and endurance are inferior to the RQ-170.
** This will be iran’s premier stealth drone to be used against israeli
theTRUTH: About Falling Bullets
How dangerous is celebratory gunfire? With July 4th approaching we spoke to Former Police Officer and DEA Special Agent, Gregory Lee about the potential consequences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKa9ZcOYGLI
Your friends at Gateway Pundit called it a “kamikaze drone” yesterday. I know they tend to get a little turgid and dramatic in their headlines—I am glad they keep your own headlines for your articles—but everybody seems to driven to distraction by the alleged Iranian origins of this, dare I say it…wunderwaffe?
And now you up the ante by mentioning the possibility that it was reverse-engineered from a captured American drone? Captured during the Obama years, I might add.
To top it all off, former ambassador to Germany Richard Grenell accused the Biden administration of funding both sides of the Ukraine war by bribing Iran to not go nuclear., essentially funding production of the Geran drones. And all of this after Obama flew in pallets of cash to Iran on his way out the door.
Putin must be marveling at his good fortune in his choice of enemies.
Obama flew pallets of stolen IRANIAN cash to Iran and if the West ever wants peace with Russia it will fly the pallets of stolen Russian cash back to Russia.
Given the number of U.S./NATO weapons being shipped to the black hole that is Ukraine, it seems likely that, moving forward, we or our allies will face any number of our own weapons designs in future combat, if not the actual weapons themselves.
I’m no military expert, but I have to wonder as far as the weapons Russia has thus far used if they are purposely using bottom-of-the-barrel stuff as much as possible so as to not allow us to study their more advanced designs. The U.S./NATO is pretty much showing Russia all of our cards, allowing them to study not just our weapons but tactics and develop countermeasures, while they sit back and lob Soviet-era artillery shells, then drones copied from our own weapons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM
Where are the drones coming from ? Eastern Ukraine to Kiev ? These little cheap thing? That’s a long haul at a slow speed. Just my thoughts from the videos I have viewed on TV. I would figure Russia has better options. Looks like propaganda from the Zelenski Express.
Very important question….Why aren’t we more coverage of this in western news media? Well, there is an editorial today in the WSJ illuminating US Military Weakness as assessed here https://www.heritage.org/military see https://www.wsj.com/articles/americas-growing-military-weakness-heritage-foundation-index-of-u-s-military-strength-navy-air-force-army-11666029967?mod=hp_opin_pos_2#cxrecs_s
for this scary phrasing “…Heritage says the U.S. military risks being unable to handle even “a single major regional conflict” as it also tries to deter rogues elsewhere.”
thank you Larry for this additional alert of our weakness. Although, we don’t lack for ammo when our FBI swoons in to arrest domestic political targets….
Ukraine/Kyev is a stage of chaos, and this drone controversy keeps it going. What ? Asking citizens with rifles to shoot it down? Looks like those US Dem Congresswomen declaring Ukraine a no fly zone were more on target than we realized …
With each day passing, Ukraine sounds more like Tom Cruzing for a Bruising special effects action … Its almost a choreographed staging…
It is discomforting that someone has the tech prowess to capture a US lethal weapon or was this more financial aid from Brandon to Tehran? say it isn’t so Joe…
Maybe the crew on board the Drone are seeking political asylum inside Iran? Forgot, its a drone, there is no crew…
Well there’s not much of a crew in the WH either… just a bunch of propaganda drones hoping to fall into a news agency like the red haired witch did a few months back…
Larry, all seriousness aside, this is a very serious breach of Western security. Perhaps this Drone is similar to a squib load? and we are hoping that when Tehran tries to use it, it will blow up in their face?
could it be that Putin is waiting for the passing of the US Election to launch his own second wave?
Personally, I’m happy to see the US become a second or third rate power. At almost 80, I’m tired of paying for the police department of the world. That’s especially the case since, in the last few decades, we’ve been dealing with the Keystone Kops.
In the Dark Ages, pre 1970, as any kid who ever built model aeroplanes from scratch knows, the average machine shop can churn out that sort of dumb drone day & night for peanuts.
Lotsa luck shooting down flying munitions covering the skies like the passenger pigeons of yore.
Larry is correct.
The Geran 2 aka modified Iranian Shahed 136 is directly linked to the design of the American RQ170, that the Iranians captured in 2011. Shahed 136 – https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Shahed_136
The key similarity between the RQ170 and the Shahed-136 is the flying wing (fixed wing / tailless) design. Check out the timeline – the Iranians first started producing these UAV fixed wing designs in 2012 (Simorgh) and 2014 (Saegheh), very soon after getting their mitts on the RQ170 in 2011.
The Iranians then started using fixed wing designs on smaller UAVs. Interesting – all Iranian drones produced prior to the Shahed 136 used V-tails with straight wings like the Predator. In fact, the older Shahed drones (129 and 149) that preceded the new 136 variant, also used Vtails/straight wings.
The Shahed 136 was radically different as it incorporates the American RQ170 fixed wing design. I’ve read that American tech has been also been found in the Geran 2, which seems to be either an updated 136 or a Russian/Iranian joint effort.
Anyway, well spotted Larry. Apart from the fool’s many epic disasters from 2008 onwards, who knew that Obama would also be responsible for the Russians bombing NATO/Ukraine with UAVs in 2022? Quite the achievement.
The other poser is right, the Geran-2 is clearly not a bona-fide stealth design.
– Winglets’ lower sections forming 90 degrees angles against outer wing sections make for excellent rader reflectors (shape-wise) in the lateral directions. Not stealthy at all.
– Exposed metal parts belonging to the motor, especially cooling fins, make for additional radar reflection points.
– Metal (presumably) antenna sticking out from the wing’s leading edge.
– Lower fusagle/wing transition not smoothed out in any way.
That’s not to say that the Geran-2 cannot be called a low-observability platform nevertheless. The genius, if you will, lies precisely in achieving low observability within the Geran’s design overall constraints regarding costs and usability.
Replying to myself as Larry was on Gonzalo Lira’s podcast, repeating his thesis that the Geran-2 drone was copied from the US RQ-170 Sentinel.
No, in all respect, that is evidently not the case.
Numerous posters have ponted out what a simple design the Geran-2 is. It is in no way comparable to the elaborate and stealthy flying wing design of the RQ-170 and similar flying machines like its Iranian knock-off (not the Geran-2), the B-2 bomber, the Russian Okhotnik drone etc.
The Geran-2 is not a even a flying wing to begin with. I also forgot to mention that the more or less uniformly rounded shape of its fuselage, in particular its nose cone, is violating stealth principles just like everything else on this drone. This shape generates a radar return when illuminated from any direction within the forward hemisphere. It’s as un-stealthy as it gets. The point about the RQ-170 and similar designs is that, achieving stealth properties requires an all-encompassing approach. That’s why stealth is so expensive. It’s difficult to design and also to manufacture. In engineering terms that makes it practically the polar opposite of the Geran-2 with its “poor man’s stealth”, so to speak. Why is Larry insisting on that being not the case?
As Brian Breletic rightly pointed out in a recent video, shooting down a drone is not like blowing it up in mid air. Even off target, upon hitting the soil it will explode…
I also suspect that light munitions (bullets) will just perforate the wings without greatly affecting the drone’s flight capacities… thus the difficulty in taking them down…
Just an observation.
All this wetting the pants drone stuff is well and good. However, it is not new.
My Dad knew of a drone called the V1 (Doodlebug). A World War Two nazi one ton rocket propelled bomb, with course altering programming to avoid interception. It flew faster than the aircraft of the day, hence had to be intercepted. Yes cut down and polished wings, uprated mechanical life reducing engine and reduced armaments, reduced fuel load, eventually got the V1. The devastation around London can still be seen today – aka the posh blocks of new flats and similar in the then flattened streets.
It may be funny to some, but I can remember Dad many years later, diving under a table shaking like a leaf when aircraft flew over. The two towers had nothing on the Doodlebug. A real Terror Weapon.
Just remembrances. Very little new under the Sun.
the technology shown here in these vids about drones may sound like science fiction; but i think they are not that far from the truth. They have revolutionized warfare like the tank did during its first major appearance during the battle of cambrai did in nov. 1917 where the english employed 378 tanks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cambrai_(1917)
i went and saw this movie when it came out .
Angel Has Fallen || Drones Attack Scene in HD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYywnZFPe6g
this is not far from reality i think especially since everyones face is know in one data base or another.
Sci-Fi Short Film “Slaughterbots” | DUST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU
russia aa in action
https://www.defenceview.in/russian-s-300v4-air-defense-missile-sets-world-record-for-longest-interception/
probably the best system in the world today; but even a battery of 4 of these could be overwhelmed by a huge drone swarm as shown in the opening of the movie ANGEL has fallen. Even if you take out a 100 of them; like a cloud of angry hornets only takes 1 to sting you.
https://missilethreat.csis.org/defsys/pantsir-s-1/
it looks like you would need 50 cal. ,14.5 mm, 20 mm, 23mm , 30 mm or 35 mm gatling radar directed guns , railguns, dews, emps and the microwave style device below to defend against this tech. the japanese ww2 kamikazes that got through the air defense had a pile of lead thrown up into the sky to take them out and still many got through.
https://18.220.82.145/a-new-air-force-weapon-will-wipe-out-drone-swarms-with-the-push-of-a-button/
Once THOR is set up, it can detect an incoming threat and silently shoot a beam of energy to knock out drones in a wide target area, exactly like what you might find in a drone swarm. The beam is a high-powered microwave that instantly triggers a counter-electronic effect in the targeted drone. AFRL boasted that the system took out hundreds of drones in real-world tests. That real world setting may have been somewhere in Africa, where the Air Force tested out THOR starting in December.
——— fuel air weapons ————
this was first shown in a hollywood movie 27 yrs. ago.
this is another game changer in my opinion. makes the neutron bomb obsolete in my opinion. will wipe out every life form down to bacteria in an instant within its kill radius which even a tactical nuke cannot do.
Vacuum Bomb” Thermobaric Weapons Assessment – 8 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwScTlCf5IQ
Fuel Air Bomb _ Outbreak 1995 720p – 49 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO2-YxWkRxk
Thermobaric Vacuum Bomb – BLU-118/B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oid4FlNR83Y
Testing Fuel-Air Explosives / Thermobaric Bomb | Finnish MOAB 5 000 000
https://youtu.be/sv0tGx80yLk?t=479
cheers,
ralph
> “It is still not clear how it fell into the hands of the Iranians. ”
.. the drone probably sought political sanctuary.
I think the ending of the video was important as well. I remember that event well, and I also remember thinking that the IAEA was a reputable organization and if it made a claim it must be at least based on fact. That sure has changed!
it seems to me that the most likely explanation is that these small drones are a joint Russia Iran venture. with the Iranian design being manufactured in Russia under some form of licence or cooperation.
Iran needs to keep a bit of a low profile due to its own regional tensions with the US and Israel in particular. so a degree of deniability is good for them, whilst at the same time sending a thinly veiled message to any potential adversary as to their capability if pushed to an actual confrontation
This russian produced drones made from iranian license kit must have different guidance system in order to avoid getting creamed by russia’s own EW / anti drone tech.
i wonder how good the original iranian drone against the current anti drone tech possessed by the west ? i think the western military got caught with their pants down when their anti drone tech failed to stop this ‘cheap drone’ ..
it is interesting to see these kind of cheap drone swarm in the next war
“The Government in Kiev is so desperate that they are begging Ukrainian citizens to rush to the streets with loaded rifles if they hear an approaching drone and try to shoot it down.”
Yeah that’ll work, I mean didn’t a Uki shoot down an SU35 with a shot gun no less? 😅😅
i also came across these. i believe that kinetic projectile weapons for ground to air defense will make a comeback just as in the 1960`s they put the 20 mm vulcan cannon back into the phantom fighter because air to air missles were not the be all to end all they were cracked up to be. Even in military space sci-fi mass driver railgun type projectile weapons are used allot as per the best military sci-fi series that came out in years called the expanse which was on for 6 seasons from 2015 to 2022 which i enjoyed watching, this was also the case on the new battlestar galatica imagined series from 2004 to 2009.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3230854/episodes?ref_=tt_eps_sm
i believe that sci-if is a projection of tomorrows reality . Star trek ( communicator=smart phone)( replicator=3d printer) etc.
https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Railgun
https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Power_armor
i found these experimental and theroetical weapons systems interesting which would put out allot of projectiles in a very short period of time which would be needed against a drone swarm for point defense where one tenth of a second counts.
The Metal Storm gun
https://fossbytes.com/watch-how-worlds-fastest-gun-fires-1-million-rounds-per-minute/
The Dread Weapon System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-teEbB9vlEU
https://www.defencetalk.com/military/forums/t/dread-weapon-system-revolutionary-or-con.3901/
this is a clip from the last matrix movie showing the captain Mifune in his APU taking on the sentinel drones . Also notice the soldiers with their dew guns.
The Matrix Revolutions (1/5) Movie CLIP – Blaze of Glory (2003) HD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk3Z-MVoUg4
https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Sentinel
https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Armored_Personnel_Unit
https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Lightning_rifle
cheers
ralph
I wouldn’t pay to much attention to, as you said, “delta wing” form of a drone. It is dictated by function and flight characteristics rather that by proprietary design. This form is not uncommon in model airplanes/drones.
Here is commercially available aerial photography\mapping drone https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32871699214.html
And here is some hobbyist testing similarly looking (tho jet engine powered) air-wing https://youtu.be/MLp1YXx_Tcc?t=205
We shouldn’t sell Iran short by implying that any technical feat they produce is the result of stealing or copying technology from the big guys. Sure, like everyone, they build off the shoulders of others gone by, but they are not without their own creativity.
The Iranians are an extremely intelligent, innovative, technically astute and capable people more than capable of creating their own cheap, deadly accurate missiles and UAVs.
“… they are not without their own creativity …”
Iran’s aircraft industry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIhFxR38PkI
Iran’s Defence Industry (short documentary in English):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64n5IbEokEU
Iran’s Defense Industry (All in One):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyemvGMPLJw
I liked a lot the way Larry implied an US involvement with little to no factual backing in the same way western MSM are implying an Iranian one.
Neither the less, he missed the part where new sanctions must be implemented against any support of the SMO.
See what you did there : Liked it a lot. Not sure everyone got it tho …
Ukraine would’ve been forced to the bargaining table long ago if not for NATO interference
“The Ukrainians apparently do not understand the principle of gravity–i.e., a bullet shot into the air will return to earth with sufficient force to kill, maim and damage.”
You made me search for the terminal velocity of a bullet. Quite interesting read.
Q. How did Iran get the technology?
A. Israel.
Saw that coming years ago when the Iranians “shot down” that drone.
I love your LAST LINE:
“The Ukrainians apparently do not understand the principle of gravity–i.e., a bullet shot into the air will return to earth with sufficient force to kill, maim and damage.”
USA + UK + EU (aka The THREE STOOGES), and Ukraine seems to be RUN by people with ZERO BRAIN CELLS. 90% of Politicians in these countries DO NOT seem to understand BASIC ECONOMY, Science, Gravity, or even about NUCLEAR WAR leading to ALL HUMANS DEAD.
While ASIA (not New Zealand, Australia.. aka US Colonies), Africa, Middle East all seem to be RUN by politicians with HIGHER INTELLIGENCE… and so are going in the direction of Respectful Dealings with Russia. And that WITHOUT Food + Energy, Human Civilization will peril. And so Russia is the way to go.
I love your LAST LINE:
“The Ukrainians apparently do not understand the principle of gravity–i.e., a bullet shot into the air will return to earth with sufficient force to kill, maim and damage…”
USA + UK + EU (aka The THREE STOOGES), and Ukraine seems to be RUN by people with ZERO BRAIN CELLS. 90% of Politicians in these countries DO NOT seem to understand BASIC ECONOMY, Science, Gravity, or even about NUCLEAR WAR leading to ALL HUMANS DEAD.
While ASIA (not New Zealand, Australia.. aka US Colonies), Africa, Middle East all seem to be RUN by politicians with HIGHER INTELLIGENCE… and so are going in the direction of RESPECTFUL DEALS with Russia. And that WITHOUT Food + Energy, Human Civilization will peril. And so Russia is the way to go..
It’s so true that the collective West seems to be run by the most moronic incompetent deluded naive collection of ignoramuses the world has ever seen! It’s been noted by many astute thinkers across Europe.
Yet, the whole Western cosmos seems to be under a spell, a drug-induced lethargy that resembles a coma. I believe that the coma was induced by false and misguided ideas coupled with excess material comfort that has led a majority to lose touch with reality.
Think ! Odds are that a majority of kids from yesterday and nowadays have never been in a barn, smelled the shit, and seen the cow give birth! They’ve never seen how a hamburger is obtained after butchering, skinning, gutting and dispatching the poor animal!! They may have seen it on the internet, may be. Most of those in power today have only virtual experience with little grasp of reality.
It is modern schizophrenia at work, the only explanation to the current affliction that grips the Western leadership class of fools.
LOL Larry, very good
Perhaps a bit off topic but here is a link to a funny very short video of the dangers of “casual gunfire” for your readers who may have not seen this before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU
Dear Mr Johnson,
Also the German MSM labels the Iranian product as “something special” (in German, with EN subtitles):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxinKkLYoRE
“… we (Germans) are a bit behind …”
Former General Roland Kather gives “ethical reasons” as the explanation … Despite being optimistic about the developments by the German industry, he acknowledges that currently anti drone systems are only partially effective and not without risk…
Larry, I will try and answer your question (Why is USA bombing Ukraine):
Because our whole model is based on being in everybody’s business. We don’t do it to help people, we do it to control them, gain/keep a foothold and then use them for resources or as a position against someone who has resources.
As we can see today, we maxed out that policy by running into a stiff resistance all over the world. Russia, China, Iran, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Latin America, Africa, middle east – all of a sudden we find that coercion and moralizing, arm twisting and hypocrisy – well, they only run so deep. If you were in a fight, would you want a friend to be in the fight with you or someone you keep on side with blackmail, threats and dirty games? We are finding out that friends are few….
So, yeah, fly sh*t around the world to mess with everyone and eventually someone will capture it and use it against you or your “allies”…..
I always think about Russian/China weaponry and certanly, in this case Russia, did not show her main “tools” in this SMO.
I really think that some of these tools can deactivate enemies’ weapons, turning them useless.
Am I dreaming?
Russia has made use of hypersonic missiles (see “Kinzhal”) in this war…
Geran 2 is similar to RQ-170 as much as it is to Horten Ho 229. Flying wing airplanes have been around for a while.
As an engineer i can confirm that Geran 2 is an excelent example of engineering under heavy constraints. It’s easy to make a drone for couple of millions a pop, not so much for 20K (or maybe even less).
Ukrainians have also been laughing at how cheap Orlan 10 is built, and praising Bayraktars. We know how that ended.
Are there any numbers on the proportion of casualties & damage that are due to Air Defense (both interceptors and target vehicles skewing off course) as opposed to actual targets?
Has anyone wondered why the UK’s Defence Secretary dropped everything (including a meeting before the House of Commons Select Committee on Defence) and flew tot the US on Tuesday?
One of his junior colleagues is Army minister kames Heappey who said that Mr. Wallace was meeting with his US counterpart for “the sort of conversations that [are] beyond belief really, the fact we are at a time when these sorts of conversations are necessary.”
Hardly anything in the msm but it was in the London Evening Standard.
It is because, IMHO, near time for a small false-flag nuke.
Heappey’s words are the take-away here. They indicate that the visit was strategic.
I think RU’s buildups, especially the trainloads of armour on 2-3 fronts has ’em spooked. Maybe they’ve seen more than the TikTok videos we’re watching, but whatever it is it seems US/UK/NATO(?)’s “Go Big or Go Home” moment is at hand.
There is no saving their Ukraine strategy on the present course. A month or two from now, there’ll be no stopping Russian armour from rolling across a crippled Ukraine. US/UK’s only option is to put an ultimatum on the table. The Russians would know it’s a bluff, even if they didn’t.
Alternatively, maybe cooler heads have prevailed in London & DC. Maybe, just maybe the Russian ultimatums of Dec 2021 have started to look pretty good to them and they’re hoping to put them back on the table.
As for nukes, IMHO a false flag nuke would backfire. They know that their Nordstream adventure has poisoned the well, so in effect it’s been pre-emptively debunked. No advantage beyond terrifying their own constituencies can come of it now. Maybe that’s enough for them, but it would be a gross strategic blunder globally.
There is no similarity whatsoever. The Shahed 136/Geran 2 is a delta wing blended body airframe. The RQ 170 is a flying wing.
Wow – you are 100% correct.
Completely different aircraft
Newest propaganda: Catholics keep sending me crap like this –
http://ilsismografo.blogspot.com/2022/10/ucraina-videomessaggio-di-sua_18.html?ref=Starting+Seven-newsletter&m=1
Please help me set them straight!
Separate from them and don’t cast your pearls before swine.
More on Iranian drones…
Iran drone factory in Tajikistan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR2R3EIzyNM
Underground base:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3CPRIaPm9M
These images are from end 2021/January 2022:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAep44qoUmk
There is over engineered (Nazi Tiger tank). There is under engineered. And then there is simplicity that achieves brilliance. Link to History Channel segment on tanks that changed wars. Number one is the Soviet T-34, which the Nazis originally thought deficient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVg6gFmuRlE
Interesting commentary by Western historians. Looking at same for drones?
Thanks Larry i think this really pulls it all together and suddenly things make sense. Russia world leader in EW helps Iran bring down a drone. They both study it and use the lessons learnt from studying the technology in it to make a cheap disposable drone. Of course it’s going to look similar if it’s designed towards the same end goal(kamikaze drone) using the same start point(RQ-170).
Westerners don’t understand one thing. Ukraine is not mono-national country and never was. This Ukrainian “government” openly using bederite ideology to conduct ethnic clensing under cover of war and “fighting with diversion”. Ukraine has short history but one of the moste gloryfied people is Stephan Bandera and his OUN UPA – You can noticed black red flags (no these are not Antifas but I understand fascination) . For Eastern Eruopeans it’s serious threat. Under this flag Ukrainians conducted ethnic cleansing of 250 000 Poles Jews and Russians from Western Ukraine in 1943 (Volhynia Massacre) now under same flag they fighting for “independence’ from Russians next in the queue are Hungarians who also live in Ukraine and “Ukrainians” also have problem with them. UPAine with official banderite ideology and blessing from NATO USA in the region is serious threat from every Eastern European. That is something which will ignite much bigger fire that its now.
>> It is still not clear how it fell into the hands of the Iranians
Sometimes “admin/admin” (or its equivalent) works.
Credential replay, given that ‘batch credentialling’ is much easier to fuck up given the low calibre of CompSci people that can be attracted by the US Death Machine at entry level.
Anyone in the top QUINTILE has better alternatives – and only people from the top PERCENTILE know enough to pour piss out of a boot.
I am convinced this conflict has partitioned the population into the sheeple who will believe any fantasy that supports their “beliefs” that Ukriane and NATO are dominating this conflict and others, like yours truly and you Larry, who deal with the objective and empirical evidence which clearly shows Russia and its allies kicking the crap out of Ukriane and NATO. Especially now with the proper number of Russian troops on the ground and a warrior in Surovikin at the helm. The composite drones with no radar signature are unerringly finding their targets with ease as Ukriakne and NATO have demonstrated their inferiority of air defence once again. Great article Larry – greetings from Halifax NS Canada.
Awesome, I just caught the “bogus” reference from “Bill and Ted’s Excellent adventure ” for the MSM narrative.
For those interested in macro rather than micro look at Italy and the economic pain of being in the EU – naked capitalism has a great article on why Italy should never have joined the Euro. Note, the trends here are BEFORE the current economic suicide pill NATO has rammed down Europes throat.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/10/italys-new-government-takes-shape-with-some-not-so-subtle-input-from-brussels.html
Different engineers come to similar solutions when presented with the same problem.
Why do you think most dams in the world seem to have a similar shape? Or most passenger planes have two wings?
I was wondering if people knew those bullets would have to land somewhere.
Plus, in the unlikely event that they diverted the drone, it would hit civil infrastructure, instead of the precisely pre-programmed military one.
Lose-lose situation for UA.
Iran captured? Oblama and oBiden gave it to them..
You do realize that oBlamma and oBiden installed the little used condom in Ukraine in 2014 ryte? All this money going to Ukraine is hush money. The little soy boy was going to spill the beans on oBiden and son. They not only installed the little soy boy they stole ALL of their gold.
Iran’s capture of the CIA drone intact in 2011 was followed by an aggressive reverse engineering. They found out that the drone had a flaw that caused it to lose contact with its operator. The flaw was exploited and used to create a new type of cyberweapon.
The #IranianHackers are now using this weapon to attack critical infrastructure in the US, including nuclear power plants, dams, and public utilities.
#TheCIA is
—
It’s not just the US that has been able to capture and reverse engineer high-tech military equipment.
In 2011, Iran captured a CIA drone intact, and followed up with an aggressive reverse engineering program.
The drone was then used for aerial surveillance in Syria and Iraq.
This is a stark reminder of the power of technology, and the importance of keeping it from falling into enemy hands.
—
Iran’s capture of the CIA drone intact in 2011 was followed by an aggressive reverse engineering.
The new Iranian drone is a copy of the captured U.S. RQ-170 Sentinel, and it’s being used to spy on our allies in the region.
Iranian media released footage of the first flight of what they call “Saegheh”, or “Thunderbolt”, on March