Take a close look at this image. You can see that the landing gear on the Embraer that is on the wings. Preliminary evidence points to some sort of explosive device being planted in one or both wheel wells. under the wings, which explains why the aircraft, as it plummeted towards earth, was intact but without wings.
I am confident that this was not a sanctioned assassination by Vladimir Putin. The timing and the spectacle (i.e., a plane crash on Russian territory) are unfavorable to Putin. The BRICs Summit was underway with Russia playing a prominent role. Putin also was commemorating the 80th anniversary of the Soviet victory at Kursk. Putin and his team know a thing or two about managing public relations. They are not fools. Killing Prigozhin in this way just does not make sense.
What about the GRU? Did they do it? I do not think so. Wagner is a creation of the GRU and Prigozhin was nothing more than a figurehead. If the GRU decided that Prigozhin was expendable I think they would get rid of him in a way that preserves plausible deniability. The wreckage of the aircraft on the ground in Russia will allow for the recovery of the black box and a chance to examine what remains of the aircraft. However, my friend, Stephen Bryen, makes an interesting argument (you can read the whole piece at Steve’s substack):
Stephen Bryen believes Yevgeny Prigozhin, leader of Russia’s Wagner group mercenary army, died in the wreckage of one of his private planes on August 23. Some early news reports noted speculation Prighozin might not have been aboard.
Bryen also strongly suspects that the plane was shot down, not felled by a bomb smuggled on board or mechanical accident. But he is not sure Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the spectacular assassination of his ally-turned-challenger.
A former senior Pentagon official and defense industry executive, Bryen thinks Russia’s military intelligence agency, the GRU, had the means and motive to act with or without Putin’s prior endorsement.
Steve wrote this before United States Air Force Europe reported that there is no evidence that Russian air defense was involved in shooting down the plane. Based on my experience that conclusion is based on evidence gathered from a broad array of intelligence.
I think it is highly unlikely that this crash was caused by a structural defect or improper maintenance. A bomb in one or more of the wing wheel wells seems most plausible. Which raises the next logical question — who could have done it?
My first candidate for culpability (and I repeat the point I made in my last post) are Russian Air Force officers, who lost friends when the Wagner forces shot down Russian aircraft on June 23, and decided to conduct a revenge attack without regard to the political repercussions. They wanted Prigozhin and his cronies to pay for the deaths of their friends. Mission Accomplished?
Alternatively, this could have been carried out by disgruntled members of Wagner who were disgusted by Prigozhin profiting off of their physical sacrifice. Wagner has a large contingent of ex-cons, but this does not mean they have no feelings of loyalty or love for fellow members of Wagner. I think another serious possibility is that a few Wagnerians who were fed up with Prigozhin’s public antics may have decided to take matters into their own hands.
Third up, a hit by oligarchs keen on creating problems for Putin. There are still some very wealthy Russians who chafe at Prigozhin being let off the hook for his June 24 mutiny and blame Putin for being too soft. Those oligarchs have the money and access to pull off the sabotage of the Prigozhin plane. The Beatles were wrong — money can buy you love and a lot of other things, including guys capable of planting a bomb on an aircraft.
At this point we are engaged in educated speculation. There is an investigation underway and I anticipate that this is not a smoke screen to cover up Russian Government misdeeds. I await the release of more information.
Prigozhin committing suicide is the only exclusion everyone agrees on 🙂
Suicide? Prigozhin? – Pardon my French but this is the stupidest version I’ve heard so far!
Reading comprehension is apparently not your strong suit….
Even a guy who’s been mastering English at truck stops could get it at the first glance. I’m now even more proud of my reading comprehension as it came mostly from non-fictional literature such as bill of lading and toilet hygiene rules.
Don’t applaud yourself yet. The Democrats haven’t yet resolved the final edict on toilet door naming.
“is the only exclusion”
He was joking. You’re the stupid one.
@dvc23
There are many visitors here who are not native English speakers. Think of that before you start calling people names. AFAIK Galina is Russian.
Agreed. Just another example of how the anonymity of “social” media has degraded humanity.
I initially assumed a fuel tank explosion in the wing(s) which could have been an accident — or a bomb as Larry suggests in the wheel wells. However the tail unit (excluding engines) failed first with the plane continuing to fly almost 100 km in a sinusoidal pattern The tail was found about a km from the crash site indicating it came off after failure, which is consistent with structural failure. But why was there no distress call? One may also therefore assume explosive decompression. The wings are not stressed for hi-G and could come off due to G-forces. No doubt multiple factors.
Accident or sabotage? The CIA is pushing the theory that the Russian military decided to get rid of Prigozhin. I doubt that. He was still useful.
Have the Russian government made an official announcement about what happened to Prigozhin yet? Might want to hold off on all this wild speculation and foaming at the mouth until then.
I tend towards Soloviov’s theory – that Proghozin had a huge friendly network of high-ranking contacts on the African continent who would be inclined to call on him and Russia to help them out against France, the UK and the USA. He figures that with the recent issues in Africa that the West figured now was a good time to rid themselves of this threat so that perhaps the Russian influence in Africa would be materially damaged.
He has a point. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if this turned out to be a French/MI6 job.
I’m sorta surprised that Larry doesn’t even mention the possibility that Western intelligence agencies might be involved. I would have thought they would be the prime suspects in any fowl play.
I rather suspect they’re too chicken for that sort of thing
After having done the deed in St.Pete it would have been easy for them to flee the coop, leaving avian mayhem to ensue.
So Prigozhin very publicly leading Wagner neck deep into Niger and other west African nations to militarily confront NATO/France’s faltering neo-colonial empire couldn’t possibly have any bearing on this. NATO/US-MIC is getting its ass handed to it in Ukraine, could its arms-sales reputation also withstand being thrashed by a small Russian-equipped mercenary outfit? Funny how that doesn’t even deserve a mention…
Too much tax-graft losses to be ignored, since NATO nations were promised “new and improved” replacement gear (at discount prices?) for the obsolete MIC crap and Soviet remnants they sent. What if even some NATO countries and “other friendly nations” decided that Russian/Iranian gear and drones/missiles were a better value-for-money?
Follow the money. Without the backing of the MIC/Rothschild-money class, the Clinton/Nuland/Soros Cabal would be collapse in days.
CIA? Mossad? The very fact there is so much MSM/social-media finger-pointing in EVERY direction except the most obvious suspects is in itself suspect. Committed suicide? PULEEEZE!!
Occam’s Razor, cui bono, past performance… all point in one direction. Not at Putin or Russia.
The forensic investigation should reveal all. Putin will see to it, and even if the culprits were Russian, expect a firm response.
From A Skeptic:
“According to preliminary data, it was in the landing gear area that an explosion occurred in the sky – as a result, the wing was torn off, which hit the stabilizer, because of this, the business jet began to climb sharply, and then went into a tailspin. From the explosive depressurization, all on board instantly lost consciousness, so the pilots could not report the emergency. In any case, without a wing and a stabilizer, it was not possible to save the ship.”
https://askeptic.substack.com/p/russia-ukraine-reports-2023-08-24
(you’ll have to scroll WAY down, past a lot of other interesting info)
I have found his “first take” sources to be very accurate, being correct even in the days/weeks that follow where more info becomes public.
Bomb or air to air missile fired at distance from a Russian military aircraft.
How did the wing depressurize the passenger cabin in the fuselage?
From A Skeptic:
“…as a result, the wing was torn off, which hit the stabilizer, because of this, the business jet began to climb sharply,…”
Lacking one or both wings that would be quite extraordinary!
Count me skeptic to “A Skeptic”s claim.
You DO understand that modern aircraft are monocoque designs, where most of the strength and air-pressure integrity come from the stressed skin/bracing, no distinct stand-alone “frame” as such, except subframes at high stress points like engine/wing mounting areas. So when one part of the “skin” is torn away, it affects the structural/sealing integrity of connected sections of the airplane. The engines were rear-mounted, so that section of the plane would have had a subframe which would explain why it came down separately, but nearly intact.
So it is not a stretch of engineering reality that losing a major component like a wing would compromise the rest of the plane too.
The videos show that the large falling part of the plane indeed appear to have lost nearly all of one wing and at least part of the other, with the fuselage dropping with little aerodynamic effect as would be expected if the wings were fully attached. In plain language, it was dropping like a light tubular rock, not gliding like an unpowered aircraft.
Count me skeptical of your no-data skepticism. The full forensic analysis will tell us what happened in due time.
The plane came down because Prigozhin and his party refused to wear their masks and Biden was watching. [Sarcasm. You think?]
Prigozhin effectively committed suicide when he attempted his coup!
Inconcealable…..
Scott Ritter has a theory- improperly stored ammo/explosives brought on board by Prigozhin’s security team. Apparently, this type of accident has happened before, resulting in an aircraft crash.
Funny how the small things like, who had access to the plane in Russia. Could a bomb or whatever been planted while plane was in S africa?, Who even knew he was going to be in Russia at the right time? Lot of little stuff like this pass my mind.
He didn’t die, he retired. He’s having a new face fitted in Switzerland.
So now you’ve dumped your “It was shot down by Russia with nobody in board” hypothesis which, as always, you jumped into without waiting for facts?
Hey man, without some speculation, life’s no fun at all.
The timing of this plane crash on Russian territory is unfavorable to Putin who commemorating the 80th anniversary of the Soviet victory at Kursk, on the exact day the plane was crashed.
Those who wanted the plane to crash wanted the leaders of Wagner killed and to create internal animosity against Putin, while embarrassing Russia internationally, but in a way that preserves plausible deniability.
1. Video evidence points to an explosion in the wings, which explains why the aircraft plummeted towards earth without wings.
2. The US Air Force Europe reported that there is no evidence of Russian air defense being active in the area of the plane crash.
I believe the crash was caused by hacking the Rolls Royce engine and fuel control system, via the always ON satellite link from the Rolls Royce headquarter in the UK to the Rolls Royce engine control on the plane.
Thus my first candidate for culpability is the British intelligence.
However the UK, US – and Russia – will deny such an explanation, because it exposes the dangers of Fly-by-Wire technology, which has been built into all Airplanes and Automobiles for civilian transportation during the past 2 decades.
And it also opens up a can of worms regarding the mysterious commercial plane crashes we have witnessed during the last 2 decades .
Prigozhin would be flying regularly in an airplane whose engines and fuel control system could be electronically hacked “from Rolls Royce headquarters”?
Bridge sale in Brooklyn upcoming.
Fact 1: the Embraer Legacy 600 has Rolls-Royce engines.
Fact 2: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/12528/jet-engines-are-they-owned-by-the-airline-or-just-rented
So the hypothesis definitely isn’t without merit.
Since the Allison 3007A1E engine was developed by GM which owned Allison before selling it to Rolls-Royce in 1995, it was a Roll-Royce JV engine.
It is also the same engine as fitted to the RQ4 Global Hawk drone.
The avionics are Honeywell
The plane is Brazilian manufacture but Embraer has been banned from servicing the plane since 2019 because of US Sanctions.
@Vojkan M and Paul Greenwood: Thanks for your support.
Check out German wing Flight 9525 regarding Remote altering of Automatic altitude control.
And a Question.
How does RR get the jet-fuel ejected from the wings of the airplane and into the engine?
“Rolls Royce airplane engines have a reputation for power. The Embraer Legacy 600 has twin RR AE3007A1E turbofans, mounted at the rear of the fuselage. The engines are made at the Rolls Royce North America plant in Indianapolis.
The AE3007A is a high-bypass (5:1 bypass ratio), two-spool, axial flow engine. It has a wide-chord, single-stage direct drive fan and a 14-stage compressor.
Fuselage-mounted engines are, of course, closer to the aircraft’s occupants than wing-mounted engines would be, so it is important for the engines to be as quiet as possible. As well as being very fuel-efficient, the AA3007 is an extremely quiet engine, 13 decibels below the FAA’s Stage 4 engine noise requirement.
One advantage of fuselage-mounted engines is that there are no engine pods hanging below the wings, so air flow over and under the wings is uninterrupted, leading to more efficient wing characteristics.
Also, there is less off-axis thrust, in the event of an engine failure, than there would be with wing-mounted engines. Therefore, when flying on a single engine, the aircraft has only a slight tendency to yaw toward the side of the inoperative engine, and remains quite easy for the pilot to control.
Those advantages come with some costs, though. Firstly, the fuel lines feeding the engines from the wing tanks have to pass through the fuselage, which can increase the risk of fire in a non-normal situation.
Secondly, in the event of an uncontained engine failure, the engines are much closer to the fuselage than wing-mounted engines would be, so there is a greater chance of fuselage penetration by engine parts with very high kinetic energy.”
https://www.skytough.com/post/embraer-legacy-600
Indeed , if someone had access to Prigozhin’s aircraft during routine servicing , the data link used by Rolls-Royce to monitor engine parameters could have been altered to also receive messages and alter the engine parameters or aircraft controls.
The fact that the tail section was found at a separate location suggests structural failure of some sort induced by a bomb in the wheel well , a bomb in the tail section , or structural failure because the aircraft went out of control for some reason.
Modifying the software/system to take control of the aircraft via the Rolls-Royce data link would require the expertise of a State actor (US / UK) working with for example the Ukraine intelligence.
It was the bankruptcy of the Rolls Royce aeronautica division.
Your first candidate, MI-6, was also mine and I posted that speculation on Slavyangrad moments after learning of the crash. It was a day after the first anniversary of the murder of Darya Dugina, another deed I believe British spooks had a hand in. I suspect in both cases, London was using SBU agents. But, as with the Nordstream pipeline caper, we’ll all have to wait for Sy Hersh to give us “the rest of the story.”
Facts are mighty thin, without speculation, rumor and innuendo, we wouldn’t have much to talk about…
What we need to be talking about is organizing. Political organizing. Trump and RFK, Jr. are the only two leaders actively attacking the deep state. One is being pursued with lawfare — multiple indictments, hanging judges and deep blue juries. The other — cancelled, censored and silenced. So far.
The problems are the billionaire-owned RepubliDemo uni-party and legacy media, with which the deep state creates and exercises monopoly political control. Remind me, when was the *last* time an independent or third-party candidate won the Presidency? Became Speaker of the House? Governor?
Political monopoly — systemic domination with the illusion of choice…
“Trump and RFK, Jr. are the only two leaders”
Plus Vivek.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ramaswamy-already-millionaire-he-accepted-soros-award-he-said-he-needed-pay-law-school
“Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy was already a millionaire by the time he accepted the Soros scholarship he previously said he needed in order to pay for law school.”
Stinks to high heaven.
In Portuguese we can say that they are the Réuspublicanos e Demôniocratas
+ or – reuspublicans and demoniocrats. This is hilarious because it captures the spirit of the whole thing.
I’m on the same page with our host, “ Putin and his team know a thing or two about managing public relations. They are not fools. Killing Prigozhin in this way just does not make sense. “. It was too messy for an action sanctioned by Putin.
However, the next three theories don’t make sense. Again, too complicated. Prigozhin crossed many people in his life, and these born in that region, never forget a blood debt. Lets go back to what Putin said “ I knew Prigozhin a long time ago – since the early 90s. He was a man of complicated fate. He had serious mistakes in his life “ [ https://t.me/fred33flint/1794 ].
So, Prigozhin death could just have been the payment for a old mistake early in his life.
WHAT PEOPLE DON’T UNDERSTAND IS — that the Russians traditionally don’t respect themselves, and this Prigozhin Drama is just the latest example of this age-old Russian problem. The Russians (and most Slavs) are a people or peoples with an inborn inferiority complex.
People don’t understand it’s pieces of shit like you
EZ Paulo, it’s his opinion after all and shouldn’t be disparaged for it from behind a keyboard, to his face would be the manly thing to do. We are all guilty of having incorrect generalizations.
You should read more of his opinions on his blog. They are way more than “incorrect generalizations”.
An opinion that coincides with Nazi racism! That I don’t despise, I abhor. Like the Ukrainian Nazis who think they are descended from the Habsburgs with a plug in the ass. And the Slavs have inferiority complexes? But they fucked the Nazis in WWII and they’re going to fuck the current ones.
I trust you are correct. If it is important to you, then convince others with truth and logic that he is misguided. To call someone names does nothing for one’s credibility and doesn’t advance a possible dialogue towards the truth. Isn’t this site and others like it trying to find the truth. In some ways contributors add a data point here and there to complete the true picture.
You can eazily deflate an argument by simply saying I disagree.
Peace
Comments and commentators like this. This is where we are reminded that the United States and the West simply picked up where Nazi Germany left off immediately after World War II, treating Russia and the Russian people as sub-humans.
Ljubenkovic… isn’t that a Srbi name and aren’t Serbs Slavs. Should you be a Slav, why are you disparaging “almost” all Slavs?
It’s not like anyone can write anything as a name here. It’s not like Ukro Internet trolls can pretend to be Russians, or something else they are not.
Yes he is a Serb as well as I am and he does speak from personal experience. There is definite disease of inferiority complex among all Slavs which imo is not intrinistic but has been ingrained from above to people by inteligenzia. As person who have lived both in Russia and in Serbia for much of my life I can say that while Ljubenković exaggarated it and extended it to all people there is definite strong inferiority complex among most Slavs that exhibits itself in extreme behaviors, whether what we call autochauvinism in Serbia (self hatred,though IMO way more pronounced in Russia) in the elites, or chauvinism (among Croat elites) strong push for legalism and proving one is better than the west at what west does(Putin’s syndrome). Russian society is definitely utterly penetrated by inferiority complexes and desires towards either imitating or proving itself better than the west (instead of looking for it’s own original way, heck even invention of wagner pmc is imo proof of this: “we’re gonna do what west does but better”) or in case of their liberals, self loathing (though IMO autochauvinists of Serbia and Russia are probably more akin to legit chauvinists from another nation since auto part would imply they hate themselves while most of them do not even consider themselves part of the nation). Russophiles from abroad (and I am also a Russophile) often do not comprehend this dimension of Russian national character. Ljubenković himself is probably a russophile too but simply cannot stand to see Russians making same mistakes yugoSerbs made (that’s another story alltogether, it’s hillarious calling the yugo communist bunch in power in 1991 here ethnonationalists). Sometimes it feels that Putin due to these complexes is trying to play the game fairly and by the rules against people who not only invented the game but also cheat while playing it which understandingly pissess people from Serbia off since it’s painful reminder of what yugo government did in 1990s (there was dozen of minsk 1 and 2s broken yet once seppo west got the hold of narrative most people think those wars were Serbia stronk zerg rush against everyone while in truth Serbia pretended it wasn’t even in the wars and left Serb equivalents of DNR and LNR to fend for themselves until later it got bombed anyway).
Not saying Ljubenković is neccesarily right (at least imo he overgeneralizes) but just as a fellow Serb I explain one important dimension westerners often overlook. The everpresent autochauvinism (In Serbia it is a problem among elites, in Russia from Russians that came here at least, I think it runs deeper). I do notice autochauvinism appearing in western societies too so it is not that disimilar to say the bunches who burn American flags if someone needs an orientation, with difference being that here it’s been at least 50 years old problem.
Thanks Lazar.
I have been to countries in the ME where people have been bombed and their countries destroyed, and in Africa too. These countries also have inferiority complexes that are compensated with chauvinism. I think the complex has to do more with the humiliation than the loss. Rebuilding bombed out buildings is quick, living down a defeat takes a long time.
This has surely happened to Russia and Serbia. Germany is also a clear example of this sense of inferiority, to be compensated for with chauvinism.
Ah yes, the famous inferiority complex, inspector Clouseau. I mean when are people going to stop with these pseudo analysis as a cover for open racist views.
What asses like yourself do not understand, is that trolling on this site does not work. You chose a Slavic sounding name in order to call Slavs subhumans. Are you supposed to be one of the ubermensch-Nazi-NATO Slavs (Banderites, Ustashe, etc.), or are you just bad at psyops?
What are you talking about. What racism? I am talking about very real primarily cultural phenomenon highly entrenched in mainly cultural elites but then that behavior seeps from there downwards and it has been going on for quite a while, possibly since 19th century. That worries me greatly because it directly affects ways our governments function and contributes to the institutional rot and disheartening of people. Western Russophiles do not take this into account but it contributed greatly to the fallout of USSR which caused this mess in the first place. It also greatly limited what Putin could do in february of 2022 and why operation needed to be run slowly.
I do not think even most ordinary people in either Russia and Serbia are naturally like that but it seeps from this upper circle which is heavily influenced by the west.
Lol, inventing that I am from these parts by using a name XD. I would have used much more Slavic name if I wanted to do that. Much of the stuff I said here can only be said by someone from these parts>
Буквално не знам како друкчије да вам докажем да сам Србин, али људи који су одавде ће одмах знати о чему причам. Рецимо “аутошовинизам” је термин који само људи одавде користе.
Burrying head in sand and not identifying this problem can only cause further mistakes and I really want Russia to win this since it is also a spiritual battle. I think they can solve these problems and there are efforts put into it but it will be a long struggle.
Ah you meant this reply for Ljubenkovic, well sorry for my previous reply ;). Although I jumped to explain what he likely meant who knows at the end. What you say about him (that he just came here to cause drama( since he was way more harsh than me is also plausible though I wouldn-t count on it. Also not neccesarily a Serb either which I immediately assumed by surname. Could be a Croat, could be from others also.
Yea, it’s kind of obvious. 🙂 Go the the previous page of this blog, and read all the stuff that this “russophilic”-guy-with-Slavic-sounding-“name”-that-you-defend wrote. There’s a lot, and it’s all vile.
This is Internet, FFS. Your level of naivety is too high, even for a Serb. You fell for his BS way too easy.
https://sonar21.com/wagner-titular-head-prigozhin-dead-or-alive/#comment-151664
Hmmm why would a leader kill someone who had their own army who attempted a coup and was maybe plotting more…hmmm…can’t think….
I suspect 1) or 3), simply from the timing of it: exactly 2 months after the mutiny/protest. Exactly. What are the chances?
Plausible. The death of the airmen killed by Wagner hasn’t been revenged – until now. Yes, exactly 2 months.
Yea righ, plausibe. You exact revenge for innocent airmen by killing two more innocent airmen, and a stewardess. Everyone in Russia is terrorist.
Anyone know if out of the 13 pilots killed during the mutiny …did any of them have powerful families?
Who knows? Vladimir Putin knows or will know. It’s an example of Occam’s Razor in action. The simplest explanation is often the most viable. Who had motive? Putin, Russian military? This occurred right inside Russia. Controlled scenario and evidence scene.
Russia and the Russian military are much better off with the traitorous and unstable Prigozhin out of the picture.
I don’t buy that Putin did it. He has tons of respect for the fallen Russians during the Kursk battle to add more Russian death and
blood of this crash. There also was killed in the crash a 40 yo female flight attendant Kristina. If it was an “official” killing, it would be done somewhere else and another time. Putin wouldn’t want to tarnish the commemoration of the Kursk battle and its fallen soldiers’ memory. I agree with the theory of pilots avenging for killed pilots.
No, Lika, the version about the revenge of the pilots is the most implausible. I probably can’t explain why it’s not possible. Try to imagine that in Russia there is a strong adherence to the law, lynching and lynching are unacceptable – you can get maximum terms for this. Especially among the military, especially military pilots. Ruin the crew, his colleagues and the fighting vehicle for the sake of some jerk who has already been written off? No, no and NO.
Yes, and it was not Prigozhin who shot down the plane and the helicopter, and not even on his orders. Who exactly shot down – we do not know. His fate is also unknown. Alive or not – not known.
There are many versions of what happened. How many people, so many opinions. We should wait for the results of the official investigation.
Gera (Татьяна),
I’m a military brat, and I know about military discipline, but I also know that Wagners’ killing of 12 Russian pilots and going unpunished for that wouldn’t sit well with any army. Embraer is not a private, civilian plane.
We are just hypothesizing here. Your guess is as good as mine about what really happened.
Any professional pilot(civilian) does a foot (walk) full ‘eye check’ of his aircraft for security + safety and it is an obligation by ICAO rules and airline internal rules anyway. Maybe this is not the common practice with private jet but it should be a ‘must’? Very strange even worse as the air hostess said loudly before going on board ” there is something not normal to this aircraft ”(according to multiple RU Tm channels yesterday night).
Just one on a warlord’s jet? When Gaddafi made an official visit to a foreign country, he set up his own tent! He never ate an olive or slept in a hotel outside Libya. And they still fucked him in Libya.
Perhaps the bomb could have been attached at the very last moment to reduce risk of detection. And it could have been prepared weeks or months before, and held in a safe place for the right time. Everything could have been planned ahead including the appearance of the bomb and the manner of placing it, just not the exact occasion. This all suggests that a lot of people were involved, including an ‘insider’ to place the bomb (unless it could be attached by drone shortly after takeoff?).
All a great distraction from the last Ukrainian disappearing in battle any day now.
That is the big coincidence for me. Defeat of Ukraine is happening so the theme has to be troubles in Russia mean US has won!!
Best not to over think military insanity….the cook was becoming a bore. Low ratings etc. First rule in a commercial kitchen… don’t bite the hand that’s pays you. An old mate told me that and he could punch on, and was good with the knives.
The Silence from Uki land screams the loudest.
A contract mustava been offered to Zelenskyy ? War is a dirty business and money to be made, just ask 10%.
(What if the Zeee is next? Who’s paying who and who don’t even care any more.)
1. President Putin doesn’t’ believe in Collateral Damage
2. I’ll go with someone who predicted this 2 weeks ago although she thought the “Russian” would be Lavrov instead of Prigozhin
3. She said it would be during BRICS+
4. She said it would be USA/U.K.
5. You being with the CIA, I’m surprised!
6. It’s obvious who doesn’t care about collateral damage
7. Desperate people do Stupid Things.
8. Jacko Sullivan & Victoria “THE WITCH” Nuland’s mouthpiece (Budanov) was bragging about something “even bigger” a couple of days ago for one of their stupid celebration days
9. Did you see that NY Governor begging for money for the “migrants” for jobs, food, federal housing, schools, healthcare and legal services but doesn’t even acknowledge the poor Hawaiian victims nor the lost children?
10. ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED with the WHOLE LOT OF THEM and may the BURN IN HELL!!
Not an inside Russia hit job.
Ukraine/CIA/MI5.
My choices, too. But add in France, because of Niger.
Yep, those have been planting bombs left and right, and Internet-idiots instantly say that this one must be on Putin/Russians, because reasons. This looks like a collective IQ test.
Its truth. But Prigozhin’s plane is not Dugina’s SUV, which didn’t even have security.
They have been bombing much more than cars. Kerch Bridge had security, and they drove truck right trough it. I have not heard of single terrorist style bombing done by Putin/Russians. Basic statistics can say who is into bombing, and who is not. The usual suspects should be those with long record. We live in an upside down world.
far out and thank you, Larry Johnson. as usual you are a brightly shining star in the pantheon of the best. -regards, a v.
Or maybe #4) He wasn’t actually on ‘the plane’. Could it be possible that this is just another pathetic distraction and Prigozhin’s just . not . even . actually . dead ?
Steven Seagal and Grazier 1 (Under Siege 2 movie) comes to mind.
There are many possible actors, including Ukrainian, French, US, UK in addition to various enemies inside Russia. And we should not prematurely rule out straight-forward accident. A rational question which has to be answered is: Cui Bono? And after that, who had the knowledge of Prigozhin’s travel plans and the means to destroy his plane?
As to Cui Bono — that is difficult to answer. If Western intelligence had actually been behind Prigozhin’s march on Moscow, then the UK/US might have wanted him silenced to ensure the story would not come out. On the other hand, Prigozhin with his well-known flair for drama might have wanted to stage his own very public “death” to ensure he can slip away to a peaceful retirement. Apparently Zelensky has some upmarket mansions available for rent in places like Italy and Florida.
You make one of the best points in the speculative discussion – who wanted Prighozin silenced. If it was the west, my prediction is it will remain a mystery, but at some point not far in the future a western private plane with a retired Western Oligarch (probbly with gov’t officials, too) will fly into the ground. Then Western Oligarchs will start switching to BRICs.
Its all too obvious for the GRU or Putin, given how “everyone knows” this type of accident easily happens all the time in Africa.* particularly in active combat zones.
*Note SARC quotes.
One might think that some part of the Russian military would never go rogue. Of course President Trump ordered all troops out of Syria and the US military ignored him. And Rainbow Milley went rogue by calling China’s military intelligence and informing them that the US “wasn’t going to attack China”. (They were probably like “no shit, Sherlock”.)
Nixon was convinced there were no US troops in Laos……..until a mother of a dead one wrote to the White House…….
Mel Laird was oh…so forgetful
whoever hated him in Russia will never hate him more than the Ukrainians. he was, after all, the Butcher of Bakhmut.
Budanov and others are quite open about having the ability and intention to commit murders inside of Russia, and we know the Dugina murder and other have been pinned on Kyiv. We also know that Prigozhin had contact with Ukraine in the weeks leading up to his “protest.” so perhaps his schedule was compromised and his Ukrainian contacts were able to network his whereabouts etc and get someone near his plane. Remember the patsy who took the statue to the cafe? it’s not out of the question that something similar happened here. maybe Ukraine found an unwilling courier. luggage bomb etc.
Budanov cant brag about it because innocents were killed.
Cui bono poland and nato
Yes, another intersting puzzle.
The bomb in the wheel well, first mentioned yesterday by some reports, is seeming more and more reasonable and fits with the video released. Agree that the RF is increasingly unlikely to be behind it. Many, many other less public and spectaculars ways to remove him, including a crash of the flight to or return flight from Mali after his ‘vacation.’ Also, accidents happen in Africa, even not during BRICS summits.
A possibility is Evgenii staged his own demise to cover a planned disappearance. He likes disguises, has the means, and the situation has gotten dangerously out of control for him. Maybe a long shot, but possible.
Evgenii has made many powerful enemies. Reasonable to assume some of them have been looking to even scores. Some may be looking to remove a possible threat to themselves is Evgenii decides to look for a way out by flipping on other powerful players. Certainly a reasonable posibility
Also, there was a split within the ‘musicians’over the coup. Only part of the ‘musicians’ supported Evgenii and Utkin. Those who didn’t support, wouldn’t support the coup may want to extract revenge for that and for the blooletting at Artemovsk. Another reasonble possiblity.
Then there is still the 404 wreich nazi gestapo and MI6. They killed Vladen Tartarsky and Darya Dugina, who may have been the secondary target in a attempt that expected to kill her father Aleksandr Dugin. Why not, Evgenii was reported to take OTAN $$$, but didn’t deliver. OTAN games during BRICS certainly would be in chartecter. Another reasonable possibility.
There remains that it was, in fact an accident. A plane not properly maintained, whose replacement parts would be affected by sanctions, and used by those used to taking chances, still with the realm of possibilities.
This will take time to sort out, if ever made public at all.
Interesting timez…
Very good comment. To me, your comment “used by those used to taking chances” was indicative of human nature – just like people in the financial markets, vaccine market, etc. They become addicted to the rush, the thrill of beating the game, which they have done for so long
I strongly suspect the alleged passengers of that plane are still alive. A few hours before the crash Prigozhin was in north Mali. Unlikely he teleported to Russia to catch a plane.
I am sad to comment, Larry, that even in this second article you are still not mentioning western agents/provocateurs at least as ONE of the possible culprits 🙁 What is it? Misguided loyalty to your former colleagues? Same story as with the Nordstream when they immediately blamed Russians themselves or their Ukrainian cronies that always blame Russians for bombing their own territory and civilians?
Even raising a question about “Putin done it” seems shameful and even more misguided: not only Prigozhin greatly admired Putin and never intended any harm to him, he wanted to protect him from people he considered traitors to his beloved leader (Shoigu, Gerasimov and Co). The whole “march to Moscow” was made in order to be able to MEET with Putin and tell him what he knew about them. BTW, many if not most of Russians were and still are of the same opinion.
And “qui bono” here is clear: French and Americans were very upset – for the lack of a better expression – about losing their dominance in Africa and THAT is where the trail of crime leads, not on the Russian soil.
Wagners were and are not only the beloved heroes in Russia but the very Russian soul, so no – the trail of the crime is much closer to your own home and gov-t than the direction you are pointing the finger to following the western media propaganda. This is not even the second act of the same scenario we’ve seen time and again in almost every continent and country – we’ve lost count of atrocities your country has perpetrated in the last 80 years.
What is the manner of speaking on behalf of the majority of Russians and writing благоглупости at the same time?
For example, I believe that most Russians see Prigogine as a scoundrel, a criminal, a murderer, a traitor.
And you shouldn’t insult an ethnic Jew by ascribing a Russian soul to him.
“And you shouldn’t insult an ethnic Jew by ascribing a Russian soul to him.”
What kind of BS is this??
Pray tell what are the characteristics of an “ethnic Jew”? There are many who profess to be yet are clearly not Semitic. They hail from E. Europe, Russia. An old empire called Khazaria.
We do not actually know what Prigozhin and Putin as persons were. Being a salesman and a politician+spy, they were crafting their public image, with more or less of diligence. How much of their “inner self” is projected outside is anyone’s guess. As they says, “logic of circumstances always would eventually have an upper hand over logic of desires”.
So, no, there is no shame in considering Russian internal reasons, among all others. Full specter should be checked, unless you intent on being selectively blind.
That said, Larry’s implicit focus on Russia and only Russia is indeed glaring. With the turmoil in Niger and NATO wanting but fearing invade it, the foreign agents should be at least considered, and if dismissed – then did it explicitly with some objective reasoning. Especially if Larry leans to “bomb” hypothesis, and the planes were AFAIK flying from Africa, from foreign lands. Took off airport is always the first suspect of smuggling.
Still, Larry is glaringly looking away.
Should we consider it a “canary evidence” of him?
The United States and the CIA were the first to start foaming at the mouth when the news first came out about Prigozhin’s private jet crashing. This is the United States and the CIA saying: “But we didn’t bring the plane down with Prigozhin in it.” But they did. More projection.
It’s like all these “terrorist” attacks. A terrorist attack is an Act of War, first and foremost, during a war. Proxy or otherwise.
These terrorist attacks require intelligence. Not much of that either in Ukraine from what I have seen so far. SBU or no SBU. Just thugs and thuggery.
These drones need GPS coordinates to hit their targets with. Last time I looked Ukraine doesn’t have any GPS satellites and doesn’t possess the technology to carry out these sophisticated attacks.
These repeated attacks on the Kerch Bridge require all of the above.
Maybe they’ve landed on the moon though [sarcasm]
BTW. Anybody heard where Gonzalo Lira (an American Citizen) is these days?
Putin, the General Staff and the MOD liquidated Wagner’s activity on Russian territory! By the law. This version that Prigozhin is loved by all Russian people stands in stark contrast to Putin’s approval rating after the mutiny. It’s only one theory that the West is also very fond of expounding to provoke a coup in Moscow.
Two pilots and a stewardess died. So it wasn’t Vladimir Vladimirovich who ordered this.
Since pilots and a crewmember died it seems unlikely the RF military did either, otherwise they are guilty of the same crime they ‘wanted’ Prigozhin for.
If Ukies can so easily get at planes as likely well guarded as these two, in Moscow, then why now and why Prigozhin and not Lavrov (or even Vladimir Vladimirovich who flies often) as mentioned by WWDaughter7?
Still too many unanswerable questions.
QK
If I understand correctly, they were returning from Africa.
Maybe Russia is opening another front. This one in Africa.
Africa ____
Where Dag Hammersjog flew down.
Where Patrice Lumumba flew down.
Where HIV emerged from.
Where Savimbi held infamy. (‘Angola do hez me some oil.’)
Where Barack Obama, Sr., was raised – longitude East – before going West; across that zone where never the Twain shall meet (h/t Zacharia 17:31).
Some mean to say victim’s plane departed Africa, arrived Moscow to refuel or re-manifest, then flew on to doom.
One question: One place or the other, who pulled the wheel chocks?
One answer: The CIA (né MI6 vis Mossad — Remember Entibe!), is thick and long-patterned (not to say practiced) in Africa.
Pilots and stewardesses are expendable. Just ask all the American carriers, with their mandatory mask mandates and mandatory vaccine mandates and now their pilot and crew shortages.
Southwest Airlines: “Sorry about our complete system collapse. We are doing everything we can to figure out what happened. We will strive to do better.”
They know what happened. They (just) aren’t admitting to anything. Live with it. Customers are at the top of the list of expendables.
They are expendable in USA way of thinking. Russia is not USA, and parallels tend not to work. That’s why all the Westerns experts just can not understand Russia.
Crime almost always comes down to cui bono, and motive, means, and opportunity. There are a lot of possibilities. Too early to conclude anything about who was actually responsible.
Perhaps Western or Ukrainian intel paid someone (a Russian?) to do the job ? Or maybe earlier in Niger ? Don’ t know.
But I truly never believed anyone died in the so-called “mutiny”, because:
— no bodies
— no funerals
— a couple of videos of some lumps of metal smoking a bit as guys sprayed a little water and looked around with a disinterested “are we done filming yet?” look
— a couple of names in one local Russian newspaper with no photos
— and also, who uses a 10-seat plane to “attack a convoy” ?
And as for Putin’s supposed quotes about it, he either said “fallen” airmen (one translation) or “hero” airmen (another translation), so that really solved nothing either. Plus, Priggy was walking around afterward, and really wasn’t confined to Belarus anyway, even popping up in Africa recently.
So I’ve seen no definitive proof there was actually a mutiny (bodies?), and considered the possibility/probability that it could have been an op by the Russians (w/ Priggy, Putin, and Lukashenko) to fool the West, and possibly Western intel who might have tried to bribe Priggy to do it. Remember the Russians then searched Priggy’s home ? Why ? That was nothing either, other than to pretend they were investigating… and even that died out in like two days.
And I can’t really see the “Wagner disgruntled people could have done it” angle. They liked the guy, much more than disliked him. But if this was the case, which Wagnerite went to the extent to fit a bomb to an airplane kill ten people, and who has that level of expertise ? Surely not every Wagnerite.
And unless the Russian Air Force guys (they’re still guys there, right?) know specifically of a comrade who was killed the day of the “mutiny”, I can’t see that either… and certainly not to kill ten people in a fit of revenge. And again, not every serviceman has the skill to strap a bomb onto an aircraft to have it go off at just the right time. An aircraft mechanic sure. Others ? Hard to assume.
This smells like Western intel bribing a Russian insider to me. But what do I know ?
I can add we have family friends who drove from Rostov to Moscow on the same highway on the same day that the Wagerites were supposedly using to go to Moscow. The supposed ditches cut into the road to stop them were never seen by our friends. They were in fact, completely unaware there was anything going on at all and unaware of any plot from Wagner so were surprised to learn later of the supposed danger on the road. This leads me to believe the entire thing was a PSYOP.
Thanks for the update ! It’s good to know this eye-witness information, and supports that the supposed “coup” never made sense. So therefore, no Air Force or Wagnerites in retribution. Truly, it smells like a Western or Ukie intel bribery-to-a-Russian-insider thing again.
One in a million, who cares? (450,000 really)
Here is a tie up. People from Wagner gave the air force guys intelligence as to time tables and locations. Then some air force personnel with flight line access knew exactly how to change a flying machine into a rock, by clipping its wings. Without wings there are no aerodynamics. Residue tests on the aircraft will uncover some facts, but by now does anyone really care.
How? With a missile?
Laser, of course.
I look at the wing and I don’t even see a laser cut!🤣🤣Much less an explosion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pIjaiwlwo4
What is clear is that the wings came off. The question is how?
Looking at the wing, I can only risk that the investigation will point to a structural failure and not a malicious act. And Embraer will defend itself with a lack of maintenance. What happened I don’t know and even DNA tests can be inconclusive. It wasn’t the first time. We’II see.
This plane was born from a platform with two propeller engines in the same place as the two current jet engines. That was Embraer’s biggest sales faillure that almost closed the company. At the time when the regional jets that made more flights replaced the less competitive propellers. And already as a regional jet, it was Embraer’s greatest success ever. Including in the US. And one of the most tested regional jets in the world.
If one year of a lack of structural maintenance makes a difference in a jet? Can because they reach speeds where G-forces can destroy any platform. Already old propellers fly in Africa for decades only with homemade maintenance. Where I think Prigozhin will spend the closest times. I still bet Prigozhin wanted to disappear for a while.
@Paulo Guerra
It was joke. I left out emojis, because I expected some conspiracy people to fall for it. 😉
“This plane was born from a platform with two propeller engines in the same place as the two current jet engines.”
The two current jet engines are rear-fuselage mounted. What plane has propeller engines there?
Dust,
I got the joke. That’s why I used emojis. In general, almost everyone makes two big mistakes. Ruling out a structural failure because they think a plane without a wing is still a plane but it’s something else. Loss of a tail stabilizer very easily causes wing loss. And to think it’s easy to sabotage a warlord’s plane whose aircraft are the most protected in the world. Just an internal betrayal, which I don’t believe in. That’s why after excluding the shot down by a missile, my bets are accident or staging. As I say below, Prigozhin already died in a plane crash in 2019.
P.S. Embraer CBA 123 Vector. A plane with a completely clean wing that few are familiar with. A fantastic aircraft, hitech, no noise or turbulence for passengers that was born at the wrong time. What is common in aviation. In fact, Embraer today has a new project with turboprop engines in the tail.
https://www2.fab.mil.br/musal/index.php/aeronaves-em-exposicao/55-avioes/305-vector
@Paulo Guerra
Well, I guess the joke’s on me.
I don’t spend time on who and how. It is more important to answer the Why? Could it be to throw mud on the BRICS meeting, showing them they should never trust Putin, a very clear projection?
Anyway to answer your question it could be a bomb, radio activate from the second aircraft, or an altitude sensing device. But as Larry mentioned, bomb in the wheel carriage wells collapsing the wings is a good guess. How it was activated is not important.
Thanks. The reason you only answer a few questions is because you’ve already formed an opinion and apparently think it’s easy to access the plane from someone like Prigozhin. Someone in a branch that must have suffered dozens of attempted attacks. But my question was honest in the sense of understanding how to bring down the plane from someone like Prigozhin. And for me beyond the hypotheses, accident or staging, a missile is almost the only hypothesis. Missile that we already know did not shoot down the plane. And so my question. But thanks again.
A witness heard two loud pops before the crash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M8Uev1qFI4
After eliminating assumptions that no one can escape like a missile, there’s no way a thug like Prigozhin and some high-ranking Wagner members like Utkin could fall into such an asshole trap! Otherwise they haven’t been here for a long time after theaters of operations in French Africa and the Middle East. Prigozhin crossed the Rubicon in Russia and had to be arrested or disappeared for good services to Mother Russia abroad. And he even found a way to film the crash of the jet so as not to definitively incriminate the RAF. Probably arranged with the Russian authorities who could not continue to attend Prigozhin’s tours in Russia. Remains one of his famous masks in the Sahel and they all come off just fine. It’s only convenient that some foreign agency doesn’t hunt him abroad in a while.
Au contraire ” the aircraft, as it plummeted towards earth, was intact but without wings.” – the video you posted yesterday (interestingly [sic!?] freely available all over the shop now!) showed quite clearly the crucifix of a fuselage with both wings attached, but without the tail assembly, hence the twirling as it plummeted (think of a chopper if its tail rotor malfunctions).
The package tourist flight out of Eilat/Aqaba ten years ago was downed by a very small bomb with a mercury switch in the ceiling of the rear toilet which rendered inoperative the aileron control cables to the tail, and was placed by “Egyptian cleaners”.
Exactly. But Larry yesterday chose the fuzziest available videos for some reason. Smacks of incuriosity. There are at least two other videos, one on Simplicius, that are much clearer than the two shown here yesterday.
How do you blow off the tail with wheelwell bombs? The plane is like a mini DC-9/MD80 in planform shape. After the flames clear from the explosion(s), ze tail, she is gone, ze wings zey are still there. Then it’s the death spiral down with bits falling off due to g-forces, like a wing and a half.
Who stands to gain from Prig’s departure? France and mostly the US which is trying to oust France as Main White Man Swaggering in the Sahel. Can’t have Wagner actually putting down US paid jihadists in Mali, no sir. Or anywhere in Syria, the Sahel and down to Mozambique, where jihadists have prevented Total, France’s largest oil and gas company from getting its offshore gas well onshore receiving site construction going. Twice.
Priggo had just returned from Mali or Libya, take your pick of which, where he wore a fashionable sun hat and extemporized for the camera as usual. Yesterday, following his death, jihadists ambushed a Wagner column in Mali and knocked a few of them off. Coincidence?
It only needs a rogue air tech or baggage handler to plant a bomb — the plane’s departure from Moscow was supposedly delayed for obviously urgent maintenance, and the female flight attendant was suspicious, texting Mom about it prior to departure. The cargo hold is accessible to the washroom area in this Embraer, a good place for a bomb to blow off the tail. My complete speculation — the flight hijinks shown on FlightRadar24 may have been due to someone on board attempting to take over the pilot’s cabin. That’s as unwarranted a speculation as any of the BS I’ve read here or anywhere else, but it’s all mine.
Bill you are correct about what happens when elevators are destroyed. Russian ww2 pilots used their props to bring down German planes by chewing up the elevators. They crashed also, but they had some control.
You shouldn’t insist on a falsehood. The plane crashed due to lack of lift. At 0:40 seconds you can see that the falling plane has no right wing. And what Larry’s video didn’t show was the fire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnqpxAKxJQw
The same thing could have happened if the cleaning service didn’t pump out the rear toilet after getting back from Africa:
No Smoking in the Outhouse, Please
https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2004/07/14/No-smoking-in-the-outhouse-please/67811089823176/
And we do know Prigozhin loved cigars. As the tail assembly separated from the fuselage, if the theory is right, Prigozhin’s remains will be found with that section of the jet, rather than with the other passengers.
Nope Larry, it wasn’t any of Russian organizations. It was the CIA aided by Ukrainian intelligence.
CIA wants Prigozhin dead with a fury because he betrayed them. Prigozhin was contacted by CIA to become an agent for them, and he pretended to be a CIA stooge (recall all those crazy anti-Russian govt tirade videos?) while behind the scenes he told Putin and the Russian FSB all about the whole thing. So he was loyal to Russia the whole time, only baiting and trolling the CIA.
How do I know this? Prigozhin was allowed to live! Not only that, he was “exiled” to Belarus, but then a month later he was freely roaming around Moscow and St. Pete and doing whatever he wanted in Russia? In what universe does a Russian traitor who sold out the country to foreign enemies get off scott-free, and also get to roam around Russia freely in a private jet? The entire Prigozhin-Shoigu feud and the “Wagner Coup on Moscow” was pure theater, Maskirovka, disinformation, call it what you will. And I bet there were no actual Russian military helicopters shot down by Wagner missiles, no pilot killed. Has anyone actually seen the body and funeral of these so called dead Russian pilots? Talked to the grieving widow? It’s very easy to just print some statements in a newpaper and make people believe something, if the reader really wants to believe it, without supplying any evidence whatsoever.
So CIA wants him dead. But there’s almost nobody in CIA who speaks Russian fluently or actually know the country, so they don’t have the human assets in Russia to carry out anything like this. But guess who does? Ukrainians! Russia is crawling with Ukie agents and sabateurs, and vice versa (Russia has plenty of agents in Ukraine also), because it’s very easy for them. Pretty much 100% of all Ukrainians (at least the ones born before 2014) speak perfect Russian and know Russian culture very well, about as much as a Canadian knows American English and culture…. which is to say, a lot.
My guess is that ever since the fall of Bakmut, CIA has been itching to kill Prigozhin and telling Ukrain’s SBU to find a way to bomb his car or his plane. SBU is expert at this, they killed Daria Dugina and quite a few other Russians with terrorist bombing attacks.
Good analysis on your part my dear Watson.
Absolutely agree…. If indeed he is dead.
Seems a stretch to believe that all aboard would have not been more cautious.
Doesn’t make sense
Just a comment but there is no difference at all between Ukrainians and Russians except the hype put in the Ukrainian heads after 2014. There are some western Ukrainians who are not Russians by ethnicity and are Poles, Hungarians, Romanians, etc. but the actual people born in the territory now named Ukraine (literally translates as “borderlands”) are in fact KievRus. The Ukrainian language instilled after 2014 is more like Ibanic English is in the US. It is low-class slang now turned into a “language”. The US propaganda nonsense has taken firm hold and it is going to take Russia decades to un-tech the people born since 2008 that everything they have been taught are lies. If you go back to the Mongol times when all this began to distill Kiev was the capital of the people called Rus. Moscow hadn’t been built yet but these areas were principalities (Lithua’s. Poles, etc.) and the Moscow Principality became dominant in the fight against the Mongols. There is a lot of history and many changes over time in this area of Europe. It is more like Texas vs California in the US.
“Ibanic English”?
Sorry, typo “Ebanic” English. I remember way back that there was U.S. government funding to teach English as a Second Language (ESL) to teach inner city ghetto speaking (aka Ebanic) Americans English. AFAIK this was funded for years, particularly in Chicago. But, because of American cultural experimentation, Ebanic has been accepted as “normal” speech in the US, and any attempts to correct it are met with racist attacks.
Ah, Ebonics: African-American Vernacular English.
Sorry, twice I still misspelled it. I stand corrected and it is EBONICs. Apparently, I am losing my English skills being out of the country now 15 years in retirement. My memory still serves though and I recall several incidents. I was a company commander in Germany at a regional reference laboratory which also was the Theater Preventive Medicine (think water and sewage). As company commander, you end up on the butt end of the various administrative actions implemented to ensure a cohesive and effective fighting force. One of the problems in the military was a lack of the soldiers to have an educational level equivalent to the 6th grade. We had, and still have, a minimum requirement of High school graduation. However, graduating in the US from HS doesn’t actually mean you can read or write. this was a huge problem and the Army decided to address it with the Basic Skills Education Program (BSEP). To determine functional language skill shtye , as they always do, administer a test. To be fair it was mandatory for all soldiers to take including officers.
Much to my surprise I had a long list of soldiers who failed to meet the minimum standards and were thus required to attend BSEP until they met the minimum standards. I had in my company roughly 500 soldiers and 150 officers (24 of whom were full Colonels) so to an ordinary unit. It was in fact a TDA (peeacetime organization) and TO&E (combat organization and I was also the commander of the combat subunit for field laboratory detection of Chem/Bio/Nuc. Anyway, I got off track. I had one female lieutenant also on the list. I called her into my office to tell her she had to go to BSEP. It turns out she was a Black lieutenant from Chicago with a Master’s in Sanitation Engineering from the University of Chicago. She was extremely aggressive and filed an accusation of racism against me (I am white). Nonetheless I was not the one who selected her for the training as it was out of my hands completely. She raised such a fuss the Army released her from her contract with a General discharge. My point to all of this is this is a serious problem in the US and I am certain has gotten much worse since the 80’s.
In Ukraine, everyone spoke Russian. I worked with many Ukrainian scientists and all of them had Russian as their first language and nearly all of them also spoke English or German. Even Zelenski only spoke Russian and his Ukrainian I understand is actually awful. So, the comparison of Ebonic and Ukrainian isn’t all that far off base.
more than “cui bono,” ask “quis colem riget?”
above all, the Ukrainians🤷
I see reports the plane was full of small arms and grenades
Why they were allowed to carry them is peculiar but hardly need a bomb when you are a munitions flight
I read somewhere that this person (whoever it may be) who was last in charge of the plane or in the direction was also the last person and he disappeared without a trace.
Could this have anything to do with it?
If true, all it would have taken is sufficiently large bag of money. All ground staff will have their phone and financial activity analysed, regardless of whether someone has disappeared or not.
The only scenario that fits is the SBU did it under orders/approval of MI-6/CIA. It is too similar to the statue episode and very typical for the US morons to pull off at the exact wrong time (think Sarin in Syria which was an obvious US ploy). Then you have the US MSM with articles ready to dump seconds after the crash.
People tend to forget that in fact there is no difference whatsoever between Ukrainians and Russians except geography. Urainian-born Russians are everywhere in Russia (my wife’s family is typical). The entire “we are different” spin is a propaganda success of the US (other than West Ukraine which is a hodgepodge of other bordering areas and peoples all with axes to grind against multiple “enemies” with Russians at the top of the list for the crime of cleaning out Ukraine [actually all of Europe] of German Nazis). This is, of course, happening again against the amazingly German-supported neo-Nazis.
So Cuo Bono is yet another attempt to sow distrust inside Russia in yet another inane poorly thought-out attempt at a major propaganda coup against “evil Putin”. Nothing else fits. Think MH-17 or the Skripal debacle about really poorly thought-out plots. However, it doesn’t actually matter just how bad the plan is as it is spun as truth among the MSM and thus becomes “fact”. The constant narrative will be Putin is a thug. Truth will not be a factor and anything Russia discovers will be ignored not that Russia actually cares what the West thinks.
“the SBU did it under orders/approval of MI-6/CIA.”
Really ? You think they know future flight plans of Prigozhin’s TWO aircraft on any given day and whether he is on board ?
Even the stewardess worked for a contract company [MTO ?] and was assigned to the flight……..
If the tail landed 3.5km away from the fuselage it tends to suggest where what occurred happened
As time goes by we will have revealed to us some nefarious aircraft maintenance personnel has planted them or something similar. Remember, there was some very last-minute maintenance requiring the plane to be pulled into the hanger as related by the stewardess in a text to her family.
Inside Russia are literally millions of Ukrainians or Russians descended from Ukrainians and many are not lovers of Russia under Putin. It is a small but strong minority mostly from neo-liberals that profited under the rape of Russia by the West and are no suffering due to the anti-corruption efforts. Finding some Russian and/or Ukrainian actors willing to do this isn’t difficult as we have seen from all the other assassinations by the SBU inside Russia. I also believe firmly that the US knows exactly what is going on at all times because of the Russian traitors that are pretty much everywhere. You don’t credit the ISR capabilities of the US much which is one of the few things that work well in the US.
The “who benefits” viewpoint is the best way to look at this and I don’t see any benefit at all for Russia. For France, the US, or Ukraine definitely. The UK for some, not obvious to me reason, has a deep-seated centuries-old Russiaphobia so anything that messes with Russia is okay with them regardless of how stupid it is. The current administration of the US is the same and filled with Russiaphobes.
In the end, it is yet another pinprick. Progozhin was not loved by many and his elimination is more positive than negative for Russia so as far as Russia goes, not a big issue. In some ways, it makes the management of Wagner easier but the benefit isn’t enough to warrant this way to kill him. It would have been far easier for him to be taken out by “terrorists” in Africa. But, killing him outside Moscow during the BRICS meeting and one day before the Ukrainian Liberation Day is too much for me to swallow. This style of assassination is more in line with the same people who blew up NS1 and 2.
You wouldn’t need P’s flight plans. Presumably the aircraft had specific bases it operated from in Moscow and St Pete. Therefore you only need someone in place prepared for an opportunity to exploit as it arises.
As for the distance from the wreckage of the tail section, surely that’s not surprising? The jet was reportedly at flight level 28k feet, over 5 miles high. The tail section is relatively light with no propulsive power and it’s direction of descent will depend on winds etc. The stricken aircrafts engines could be heard still running as it fell, so we don’t know how far from the point of breakup the wreckage landed.
The tail section has the engines, but as soon as it breaks off, the fuel gets cut. Fuselage with wings can glide a bit further, but impossible to control much.
Engines still running as it fell?? Only as they were still attached.
remember, Prigozhin was in contact with Ukraine in the weeks leading up to his “protest.” maybe he was compromised from then and just didnt know it. see my comment above👆
If the plane was insured… it would be interesting to see who collects the insurance? Follow the money. If it were Larry Silverstein’s plane it would have been doubly insured against a terrorist attack. Just sayin’….
Insured ? Noone insures a plane without “war exclusion clause” and I doubt anyone would insure Prigozhin et Cie. on a life basis or equipment basis……………
The most obvious candidates are Ukrainian saboteurs unable to get any other headlines for the 24th.
They have shown their ability to act in Russia to target installations at will, and the west has a basket of reasons to want Prighozin out of the way and ideally under circumstances that serve other purposes- distraction g from BRICS being one of them, but also spite for how he played the double agent so successfully and to such a western public humiliation.
Plenty of motives to go around. I can see the West doing it to create turmoil between the different groups. I am not going to quote Simplicius because I know damn well all of you read him lol. He did a nice job going through the different scenarios in last night’s post. Seems the correct plane (1 of 2) was taken out.
Priggy was a paranoid man it seems and by the looks of it he had good reason to be. I thought maybe since it seemed to be all Wagner personnel on board maybe that it was a Putin strike. However could an explosive device to the wing even be detonated at that altitude?
LOL my point is this…..whoever did this shit was a master at trickery. They set everything up perfectly so that all parties including NATO would be equally scrutinized. Someone that likes attention perhaps. Now who could pull that off aside from Prigozhin himself? Fucker loves attention and the limelight. He would have to do it with the top brass of Russia’s consent to lie about the DNA.
I know who did it Watson. Not sure we want to keep surmising on this though or do we? I have to assume brother Larry has many uninvited guests who stop by. Get ready for a big funeral and then the return of Christ…….bet on it.
There was a report that a “gift box of wine” was delivered to the plane at the last minute and placed on board. That seems rather suspicious, but is not confirmed.
The fact that the entire fake news collective medias of the West immediately pronounced it as a hit by Putin, would lead rational observers to conclude the West did it, or that Putin did not do it. Of course, no matter what, they would say Putin ordered it, so hard to say.
If the Russian Government wanted Prighozin dead, given his personal popularity with many Russians, he would “die in his sleep” while in Africa, not be killed like this inside Russia during the BRICS Summit and when Putin was at the Kursk Memorial.
Also the timing, the day before Ukraine Day on Aug 24 would lead you to think Ukraine (Budanaov) organized this hit, as a PR “victory” stunt.
Prighozins list of enemies who wanted him dead is lengthy, many motivated parties, so we may never know.
Or it was all faked, and Prighozin just wanted to escape, but that seems rather unlikely. He could have just left for Africa and stayed there, nobody in Russia would stop him.
I don’t buy that Putin did it. He has tons of respect for the fallen Russians during the Kursk battle to add more Russian death of this crash. There also was killed in the crash a 40 yo female flight attendant Kristina, maybe with kids. If it was a sanctioned killing, it would be done somewhere else and at another time. Putin wouldn’t want to tarnish the commemoration of the Kursk battle and its fallen soldiers’ memory. I agree with the theory of pilots avenging for killed pilots. Remember, how Burns was boasting how successful their advertising for moles was? Maybe that’s what he meant?
I don’t see ANY Russian entity taking a shot at Progozhin, on Russian territory, in such a public manner, with no regard for innocent lives in the air and on the ground. Putin won’t be pleased with this spectacle.
The MSM are running with Putin, he doesn’t forgive traitors etc etc. If Prigozhin was a traitor, he would have been dead the first day he mentioned disloyalty to the GRU who make up the leadership of Wagner, never mind run a coup. Why would Prigozhin and his Wagner commanders ever think they could march a thousand kilometres to Moscow, when the NATO funded Nazis can’t move more than a few metres since last year, all 650 thousand of them. Why would experienced pilots approach a column of supposedly well armed insurrectionists, and come within SAM systems range? How many helicopters and surveillance planes do you need to fly into that group, before someone says keep out of range of SAM systems? These Russian pilots have been smart enough to dodge NATO SAMs, but forgot the procedures when faced with Wagner, give me a break.
The only people to look at, are the foreign intel who thought they had Prigozhin as an asset, and are butthurt that they fell for Prigorzhin and the GRU shenanigans, and are getting something out of the debacle they were stupid enough to get involved with first day.
Prigozhin was completely outnumbered in Rostov before he supposedly drove on Moscow, were the whole Russian military in on this also?
Interesting that you don’t have on your list any Ukrainian’s, or whoever was responsible for Nordstream, or the presumed other actors behind Prigozhin’s rebellion, or agents of the US.
I’d be interested to hear specifically why you don’t think Ukrainian’s could be behind it, given they’ve shown the ability to get to Russian airfields repeatedly over the last few months.
The Russian website “Military Chronicle” has this analysis:
The death of Prigozhin is a salvation for Macron. Political scientist Nikolai Sevostyanov on who benefited the most from the liquidation of the founder of PMC Wagner. Especially for the channel Voenkor Kitten: In the story of Prigozhin’s death, one moment is most striking. Many people are easily ready to believe that the death of the founder of Wagner was revenge for the June demarche, but they do not even think about what an incredible, fantastic success his liquidation was for Paris.
With a high probability, the African footholds won by Wagner for Russia will not be able to be held. Control over them was largely tied precisely to Prigozhin’s personal connections and the very structure of Wagner, which would crumble. Along with it, “Russian Africa” will also fall. Prigozhin died at the very moment when the French shadow empire was faced with a crisis in Niger, the damage from which for Paris is much more serious than the loss of the Central African Republic and Mali. Due to the uranium factor, the loss of control over Niger for the French is economically comparable to the loss of Algeria.
I agree with totally with this explanation. Plus, Prigozhin’s death had other benefits for the West and the Ukraine.
Hmm. You seem to be limiting your list of suspects to Russian nationals.
Not sure why.
Prigozhin posted a recruitment video when standing in an open field somewhere in Africa. Not enough time to plan an operation of this nature, no, but that promo might have been the last straw for Western powerbrokers who are panicking about “losing” the African continent and decided that its time to get rid of the meddlers.
Just a thought, but it’s odd that once Niger wandered off the reservation that the Western media went into a frenzy of “Wagner… will they/won’t they get involved?”
So plans could have been afoot ever since the Niger coup, and that promo video might – might – have tipped the West over the deep end and into reckless territory.
We are probably never going to know, because the din of MSM pointing the finger at Putin is going to be too loud for any rational thoughts to form.
Why nobody talks about the Poles ? Wagner is in Belarus making border trolling and a bunch of Poles officers were recently killed in a missile strike in 404 ? They have enough reason with that and it only pile up on a bunch of other reasons.
Then there is always the possibility of a manipulation : it’s the second death of our beloved bald troll in a plane crash after all and as you mention it the date it happens is a strange coincidence.
Poles have the desire but lack capability, as usual.
This “accident” is so embarrassing for the Kremlin…
There are however two leads I didn’t see in your analysis:
1- Given the implication of Wagner in Africa, the chances that this attack could have been mounted by either France or China are quite high, as such an operation might well put an end to the Russian endeavor in Africa.
2- The very practical thing about an airplane crash, is that bodies are potentially not recoverable : this makes it perfect for somebody that would want to “reconvert”. There are information that Prigozhine had two planes, the other was flying over Moscow at the time the first one fell.
It’s worth consideration, Sergei Shoigu as a suspect with motive and opportunity.After all Prigozhin basically pulled Shoigu’s pants down in public. Referring to his fat jiggling stomach, theft, corruption and incompetence. It appeared at the time that Shoigu took all this with extraordinary grace. Putting yourself in Shoigu’s place as second most powerful person in Russia, with oversight of the majority of the Russian military. The response seems to fit.
The General Staff and the MOD liquidated Wagner’s activity on Russian territory! By the law!
A man like Prighozin had many enemies all over the world. Any one or a combination of those could have been responsible for his death. It is of course tempting to delve into conjecture, but that’s all it is – conjecture. Not enough facts are known yet.
I’m interested not only in who did it, but also what is going on with the other plane involved. Apparently it circled for a while over an airport near Moscow, then landed, fueled and took off, apparently with a destination of Baku, Azerbaijan. The list of passengers is unknown.
On Prigozhin and back in the USA
I think it extremely unlikely that Putin would have ordered his killing. In view of his remarkable cool, in the face of the brazen, escalating provocations by the West, Prigozhin right now, would seem to him like an after thought. Putin doesn’t need any undue attention by the West on himself, which is exactly what is happening.
As to the modus operandi of whoever did it, the fact that the plane began an apparent flat spin, as a pilot, it puzzles me, unless the wings did detach (explosive on landing gear theory). Anyway, as Dimon on Military Summary said it, “Prigozhin didn’t die, he just travelled to hell to continue killing”.
At home, Fani Willis and her assistants, in case they didn’t notice, continue to do the bidding of their white plantation “Massas”, George Soros, Merrick Garland, Joe Biden,
and the entire white, political elites…that’s all they are doing, continuing to be fooled by the white men disguised as their champions.
August 24 is Ukraine’s Independence Day –
that’s a big motivation to make a big impression.
Another motive is the Wagner Presence in Africa which is definitely an obstacle to the interests of the US, France, etc.
Perhaps ‘cui bono’ isn’t the right question to ask in this case. A lot of people in Russia and abroad had motive. The better question is who had the means and the opportunity. I believe that a proper investigation by Russian authorities will provide an answer. Whether that answer will be made public or a version will be concocted to conceal the truth is a wholly different matter. The only thing we know as probably true is that Wagner’s boss is probably dead b/c Putin isn’t Biden or Bush son, he is a serious, well-informed man and it is unlikely that he would have paid homage to Prigozhin if the latter hadn’t died in the crash.
Prigozhin’s death is also yet to be made official. As is normal in a plane crash before dna tests.
by the way, an unrelated topic.
I am unable to access the strategic culture website. Anyone has any idea of a mirror site?
You need to follow their Telegram channel. They have been evicted from the .ORG domain.
This is the new domain….
https://strategic-culture.su
All these theories underestimate the intelligence of Prigozim and his team. Have you ever stopped to think how the three people from Wagner’s top flight in the same plane, is it childish for the situation they were in at the current moment? How many things do these people know? How much information about Russian and African and European leaders do they have? At the very least they should fly separately and at different times. They are not idiots. All these people in the highest echelon of power have no scruples, they are simple businessmen, there is no friendship, there is no morality. If it didn’t work out, they just move on, with no hard feelings between them. We are the ones who put morality in this circuit of politics/power, but there, in reality, it doesn’t exist. The Wagner dome is now very well protected from the “enemies”, along with everything they know, with this simple plan thrown into the media.
Cui prodest ? ? (lat. Who benefits? ). Is Prigojin’s death beneficial to Putin ? How ? If we analyze this incomprehensible performance of” Wagner”, called rebellion, both Prigojin and the others sincerely swore loyalty to Putin. That is, the” rebellion ” was not directed against Putin. So why should Putin have retaliated ? Imagine that Putin decided to suppress a man who had been close to him for many years. Blow up a plane in Russia, not far from Moscow ? You can treat Putin anyway, but you can’t deny he’s smart. And he would never do that. Prigojin had just arrived from Africa, where he could have died of a heart attack, for example. In addition, the murder of Prigojin is not at all beneficial to Putin. Firstly, because he was a talented commander and organizer, secondly, he was respected, if not loved by the people, and thirdly, Putin needed him right now, when the war for Africa was in full swing.
Putin was most interested in the work of Prigojin and Wagner. If one of the offended generals had liquidated Prigojin, do you think Putin would not have found out about this? Funny. He was delivering it to dighidumba the same day. Well, Putin has publicly given his word. Unlike European and American politicians, Putin keeps his word. Which he repeatedly proved by his deeds.
But when we start asking the same question “whose prodest” in relation to the West, then we find a lot of beneficiaries. These are NATO and EU countries. Ukraine, in any case, even if it were not, will be to blame, to cover the West. I do not know what was first on the list of reasons why the West wanted to destroy Prigozhin. Perhaps only a desire to kill an excellent commander and even a longtime ally of Putin. Blame Putin and the generals and thus bring confusion to Russian society. Remember what they have been saying lately that it is impossible to defeat Russia in a war, and therefore it is necessary to destroy it from the inside. And the murder of a personality intensely courted by the media contributes to this.
when the confrontation in Africa escalated, when the global South began to lean more and more to the side of Russia and China, NATO decided to remove a man who had successfully fought in Africa and who was popular among African leaders.
In other words, is this assassination beneficial to Russia’s opponents ? No doubt. Because the benefit is not only in the removal of a high-ranking commander, who has always been considered very successful throughout the world, but also in the fact that this is an excellent attempt to continue the demonization of Vladimir Putin.
As for Ukraine. Possible, but improbable. Although given that Ukraine threatened to arrange a serious surprise to Russia on august 24. But on the other hand, when Kiev said this, Prigojin’s flight was scheduled for august 20. Ukraine remains a terrorist country, where all important political crimes in Russia are the work of the SBU.
In general I agree but even in Putin’s statements after the crash you realize that Prigozhin’s activity in Russia was over. In Africa its different, where it acts as a private company that does not commit Russia officially but can continue to work for Russia.
The plane went down very near Moscow.
What if this was a FAILED 9/11, or the plane was supposed to go down in Moscow and was somehow flown just enough away to make it harmless? A fight on board would explain the strange altitudes just before the fall. Reminds me of 9/11 Plane #4. In other words a hijack. Then there were passenger mobile calls…
Let’s get this straight – 9/11 was a FAILED Reichstagsbrandt , the arson that put Hitler in powers in 1933. The stated objective of NATO is Regine-change in Moscow – they need a Reichstagsbrandt. 9/11 very nearly succeeded – we got the Patriot Act and universal surveillance , censorship. Putin calling Bush then saved all our lives!
This looks like a Reichstagsbrandt Light – that means a kamikaze pilot on-board , and there WERE Nazi Kamikaze’s in WWII.
We are heading into 9/11 season, which was then delayed a few weeks. This the MO of Neo-cons who call it “Crisis Management” . Expect more attempts, and not just in Russia. And for sure the Neo-cons have a crisis – BRICS expansion deliveried a very clear message their days are numbered. At 9/11 the passengers were payload, pilots kamikaze’s and NSA CIA FBI incompetence and complicity (at highest levels) likely has not changed.
Without a doubt, the number one objective of the conflict is to overthrow Putin. You’ve seen this in articles on MSM on mutiny and now on crash. But you can’t conclude if they caused any or if they are just trying to take advantage.
And another plane? Nobody talks about him. Who was on the other plane? It’s so easy to get these people into the media, especially with the control we all know they have over the news organizations. There are no more reports, only the “official version”.
Prigozhin’s jet goes down. In other news, Former Donald Trump turns himself in to Georgian Authorities. Another classic example of the “Rule of Law” being used to support the “Rules Based Order.” Squirrels!
Greeting Larry,
I agree with you that the act is totally incompatible with what we know about the circumstances therein and Putin’s psychological profile.
Putin is a Christian believer who thinks he’s a good guy. He will never thus order the wanton killing of innocent civilians, the crew, and in particular the young beautiful stewardess. In addition to the fact that he has all the options in the world of taking out his foe in the place and time of his choosing. The man is the head of a superpower with all its means, why would he act like a thief or a terrorist? Putin has nothing to do with this act.
As for the rest, the number of credible “cui bono” types of suspects is very large.
In addition to the ones already mentioned, it could have been triggered by his recent re-appearance in Africa and his release of a video promoting an African uprising against Western interests. That puts DGSE/CIA/MI6/SBU at the top of the list of suspects.
CRUCIAL QUESTION: What was the reason for Prigozhin’s rather hasty return to Moscow and who did he meet?
However, our friends overseas (USA) should sometimes conduct a self-examination, from the point of view that they are addicted to surprisingly wrong ideas, especially regarding the Slavs. For hundreds of years now, they have been prisoners of the prejudice that the “barren” Russian land has produced idiots instead of countless world chess champions. In recent times, there have been countless theories that the Russians blew up their own expensive natural gas pipeline Nordstream I and II. , then they bombed the Kerch bridge and their own capital with their drones ! I’m sorry, but the Russian government is not made up of idiots, not like the current US government, or Western European, Canadian, Australian and, let me not leave out Great Britain, which are made up of individuals carefully selected by the Deep State as marionettes, manipulated and blackmailed !
Stop making yourselves ridiculous by publishing such one-sided theories that Putin would want to kill anyone he considers an enemy of Russia in such a pitiful and cowardly way ! If his goal was to liquidate Prigozhin, he would have sent a limousine with darkened windows with the message that Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin is waiting for you in the Kremlin and now ! There is no living person in Russia who can answer no to that ! But it is too late to realize that the destination is no longer Krasnaya Plosagyy but the basement of the gloomy big building on Dzerzhinsky Square !
As for the involvement of the GRU, it is ridiculous to imagine that the GRU could fart loudly without Putin’s permission ! 🙂
In my opinion, the possible culprits in order of importance:
– Ukrainian terrorist state (CIA – MI6)
– USA
– France
– An accomplice who was not paid !
PS: as for the conspiracy theory that was initially voiced that a BUK battery of a Russian military air defense unit opened fire on a russian civilian target, well, perhaps Joseph Heller’s book “Trap 22” has been read too much, where the American bombers “for hire” bombed their own their comrades ! 😉
According to yesterday’s Daily Mail, the former head of MI6 Sir John Sawers (they spell it Sawyers) is telling the BBC that
‘All the indications point to the fact that Putin has taken him out, he is reasserting his control. He is making clear to everyone both inside Russia and outside he is not going to brook any challenge.’
The Mail tells us that Christopher Steele (also ex-MI6 of course) backs him up, saying downing Prigozhin’s plane would line up with ‘a pattern of state-backed activity’.
Hmmm.
The good thing about British services is that since they never they tell the truth, whatever they say, they actually give you a hypothesis to exclude.
Yes exactly. To me it means MI6 did it.
DId he mention Putin’s playbook? All the western experts have read Putin’s playbook, and instantly recognize stuff from it. I don’t think Putin have read it, though.
Lets look at the evidence.
We’ve got a plane that crashed deep in Russian. We have paper passenger list that lists Prigozhin and Utkin as passengers. The bodies that were found at the crash site were unrecognizable therefore their identities will have to be confirmed by DNA.
There’s no evidence that Prigozhin, Utkin or anyone died due to this crash. I can print up a passenger list just as easily as a Russian can. The aircraft could have been remote controlled with no passengers on it. I can’t see the Russian’s allowing forensic teams from the USA or EU to confirm anything … we just have to take Russia’s word on what happened.
Regardless of the facts the worlds media and online discussion boards are running wild with speculation as to who killed Prigozhin. The Russians are without a doubt completely outgunned in the war for hearts and minds being conducted in the media however they may have found a weakness in western public’s obsession with celebrity and the media can’t resist a good soap opera. To what end I leave to the imagination.
I don’t even pretend to know who killed Prigozhin or why or if he’s really dead … no one outside of Russia know for sure. However I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he and Utkin show up tanned and rested after a month in a private villa in Sochi
Very well put.
exactly.
It will be an epic movie someday, perhaps, and none of us have seen it all yet.
Ljubenkovic… isn’t that a Srbi name and aren’t Serbs Slavs. Should you be a Slav, why are you disparaging “almost” all Slavs?
I guess that this troll got you so distracted, that you posted same thing twice. 🙂 Zelensky will probably mention that as Ukrainan “victory of the day”. 🙂
Excellent.
Not sure how true this is but supposedly at the last minute, a case of expensive wine was loaded onto the plane. Also, there is a video of the left wing recovery on bitchute, it doesn’t look like an explosion occurred in the wheel well, it looks more like structural failure.
Anyone who has followed Putin’s career would know that blowing up an airplane with 10 people in it is just not his style. But given that the West has blamed Putin for every death west of the Don for decades, it’s not surprising that a hysterical Nikki Haley would blurt out that “Putin killed Prigozhin” at the GOP debates. There’s no cure for western anti-Russia hysteria — we’ll just have to wait until all the crazies are out of power and sanity rules. Or, when hell freezes over.
This is just ridiculous.
Russian soldiers died during the coup lead by the dead guys. What better way to honour the armed forces than to kill traitors?
As to timing the opportunity to kill them was in the hands of those killed, perhaps they intended this as a last visit, perhaps they wanted another go to topple Putin, but it was an.oppotunity to get them and it was taken.
This ass kissing of Putin is ridiculous. He got to where he is by having a ruthless streak too and he was probably very rattled by coup, the guy was still on about it,and he has handled it.
So message sent. Armed forces avenged.
The idea that anyone other than that Russian state did this is emotional and sentimental not logical.
Ah yes, the famous inferiority complex, inspector Clouseau. I mean when are people going to stop with these pseudo analysis as a cover for open racist views.
There is an interesting story about the owner of the plane, Artem Stepanov, who is normally Prigozhin’s personal pilot but not on this flight, is missing. This was from a story at: https://awfulavalanche.wordpress.com/2023/08/25/ukraine-war-day-548-one-crashed-jet-and-a-highjacked-helicopter/
Interesting that you exclude the British intelligence services and other…FBU, CIA, MI6, DGSE?
Why?
Lots of very good speculation by everyone. This whole Prigozhin saga has been a puzzle for me from the day he started his rants. What the hell? Why is this guy allowed such leeway? He insulted the authorities and by implication insulted Putin. I thought the whole show very strange. I can’t imagine that kind of behavior in any military. It certainly undermines the morale of society during a national emergency. Yet he is allowed to rant on.
Then what the hell? He is marching on Moscow, wtf happened here? Then oh it was all a big misunderstanding. Prigozhin loves Putin and now he is off to other projects. Western pundits had been salivating at the demise of bad Putin and even civil war and the final solution for the the Russian question. Oops, NOT. Egg on the pundits faces but they don’t care. They are like the compulsive who when caught just shrugs his shoulders. So the whole thing just smelled bad and made no sense. And just when i was getting comfortable another what the hell? Wtf is going on here. Prigozhin is dead long live Prigozhin, or maybe not. But now i finally can get a good sleep.
I clicked to quickly…Ahahah!
so… and what if They were no one on this plane?
what if it was a “false Flag”?
I find it funny that people think it’s easy to sabotage or hack a jet of someone like Prigozhin? As if he and the jet didn’t have all sorts of countermeasures like impregnable firewalls. Otherwise many more planes would fall. Or was it easy for a stranger to physically approach Prigozhin’s jet? Certainly in a private hangar supervised by its own team. No one couldn’t approached Gaddafi’s planes 500 meters away, sometimes an even larger forbidden area with its own security army.
Another thing that people assume is how Prigozhin traveled to a war zone in Africa, did he do it with the same civilian regional jet without any armor?! A jet more suitable for regional flights in Russian territory. Only one of Prigozhin’s team managed to sabotage the jet on land. Of course it wasn’t the first betrayal but as a rule the trusted men of men like Prigozhin have a lot of proven loyalty and are very well paid!
Finally why two flights to St. Petersburg? I confess that new in last 24 hours I only saw the flames on the falling jet that were not visible in Larry’s video! Which opens up a lot more possibilities. But I still assign more probability to a staging. An attack by a foreign agency on Russian territory had already been denounced and I never believed in an action by the Russian MOD or Putin, who I don’t see as terrorists. Finally, an accident should also never be ruled out until the end of the investigation! With the sanctions, a lot could have happened. And get ready, everyone, for the investigation to never be conclusive. As with most crashes with VIPs around the world.
Prigozhin was a problem for both sides, meaning the whole world. I don’t exclude anyone, not even the Vatican.
Find out who benefits from it…
Who is behind the plane crash of Yevgeny Prigozhin?
Vladimir Malyshev
25.08.2023
Find out who benefits from it…
As reported by the Ministry of Emergency Situations of the Russian Federation, on Wednesday near the village of Kuzhenkino in the Tver region, an Embraer Legacy private plane flying from Moscow to St. Petersburg crashed. All ten people on board were killed. According to the passenger list provided by the Federal Air Transport Agency, Evgeny Prigozhin is among the passengers, as well as some other leaders of the Wagner Group.
An investigation has been launched into the incident, and security forces are working at the crash site. The incident itself was caught on a video posted on the network: the record shows how the smoking aircraft rapidly loses altitude and falls to the ground. Eyewitnesses claim to have heard explosions in the sky. This confirms the fact that the tail section of the Embraer was detected at a great distance from the crash site.
The case of the crash of the plane of the founder of the private military Company “Wagner” was assigned to the investigator of the Main Department for the Investigation of Particularly Important Cases of the Investigative Committee Ivan Sibul. Previously, he investigated high-profile cases of plane crashes, including the plane crash at Vnukovo airport in 2014, which killed the head of the French oil company Total, Christophe de Margerie.
While there is no official confirmation of the causes of the plane crash. The bodies of its passengers were taken to the morgue for identification, but the corpses were badly burned, and therefore there is no way to visually identify them.
However, late on Wednesday evening, the windows of the Wagner Center PMC building in St. Petersburg were already lit up in the form of a cross, and people were carrying flowers and symbols of the legendary Russian PMC that bravely fought in Ukraine.
According to the Tsargrad TV channel, Yevgeny Prigozhin and the commander of the Wagner PMC Dmitry Utkin were killed in the plane crash. Their bodies have allegedly already been identified, and a genetic examination is still to be carried out. The TV channel refers to its own source in the Federal Air Transport Agency commission.
On Thursday evening, Russian President Vladimir Putin made a statement about the death of passengers on Prigozhin’s plane. “The Investigative Committee is conducting an investigation, it will be brought to the end,” the head of state said. — I want to express my condolences to my loved ones. It’s always a tragedy. Prigozhin was a man of difficult fate, but talented. He was active not only in our country, but also abroad. And it worked successfully. Wagner made a significant contribution to the fight against Nazism in Ukraine, and we will never forget it, ” Vladimir Putin said.
Meanwhile, the disaster in the Tver region has already become almost the main event for the world media, where the news of Prigozhin’s death is made the front pages of almost all newspapers.
Russophobes of all stripes strenuously exaggerate the absurd version that the Russian leadership is behind the plane crash, thus allegedly deciding to deal with the head of Wagner ,who recently attempted an armed mutiny.
Even the leading leaders of Western states have made statements on this issue. President Biden, who is in Lake Tahoe, was asked if he believes Russian leader Vladimir Putin was behind the disaster. “There’s not much going on in Russia that Putin isn’t behind,” he said cynically. “But I don’t know enough to know the answer,” Biden evaded a direct answer.
Meanwhile, the incident began to grow and other, the most improbable versions. So, in the Arab segment of social networks, including among journalists, there are reports of “eyewitnesses” who allegedly saw the head of the Wagner PMC Yevgeny Prigozhin in Mali today. This was announced on August 24 by the Arab Africa telegram channel.
There is also a rumor that Yevgeny Prigozhin and the Wagner commanders were allegedly on the second plane and should arrive in Niger on August 25 with 250 Wagner fighters. And in Arab social networks, the following messages appeared: “Prigozhin is in Mali to repel any possible French invasion. The Russian bear created the illusion of its own demise, just as the US intelligence agencies ‘eliminated’ [Abu Bakr] al-Baghdadi and [Osama] bin Laden.”
“Prigozhin is alive and well. Don’t rejoice so much. He is currently in Mali, specifically on the border with Niger, as the French invasion of Niger under the cover of ECOWAS may begin in the morning of August 25. The bombing of a plane in Russia is a media production, an old game of the special services, nothing more, ” these sources claim. However, it is already clear that such information does not correspond to reality.
Against the background of these reports and the most ridiculous versions of the world’s media, jubilation in Kiev looks typical, where the message about the disaster in the Tver region is met with delight. In this regard, the usual question for such “mysterious” aviation accidents arises: who benefits from this?
Retired Lieutenant-General of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service Leonid Reshetnikov wrote in his blog on this occasion: “The elimination of Prigozhin on the Moscow-Petersburg route is like the murder of Nemtsov at the Kremlin walls: none of the special services of our country, even if we assume that there are a lot of idiots there, will dare to do an act that thus [obviously] “hints” at the responsibility of its top management. Obviously, there would be a different place (big Africa) and other circumstances (for example: serving him spoiled crocodile meat). But here, instead, is an attack with a subtext-as if to say: look who most likely did it. A typical British signature, with Ukrainian performers and also, probably, with their limited participation. Moreover, the British Intelligence Service and other secret organizations are very fond of arranging all sorts of “poop” dedicated to anniversaries, mystical events, the death of some past negative hero, and so on. Now they were being killed on the eve of the [Ukrainian] “Independence Day”.”
“I definitely exclude the version of using air defense systems,” said Vladislav Shurygin, a well — known military expert, commenting on the incident. — There is a video of the plane crash and a section of the sky — there are no traces of a surface-to-air missile there… Could there have been a bomb? I could! And then the question is-who could have arranged this?”
“In the search for perpetrators,” he continues, ” the ‘special services’ immediately suggest themselves, but to do this in broad daylight, in the Russian sky, near Moscow, and even in such a way as to blow up the information space? I don’t believe it! Prigozhin just returned from Africa — no one stopped him from “removing” him there.”
But the Western special services-the CIA, Mi6, the French DGSE, and the Ukrainian GUR, according to Shurygin, “could well pull this off.” The public murder of one of the most media and influential public figures is a huge blow to the Russian collective unconscious, the expert believes. Again, the elimination of the most dangerous enemy, aimed at the redistribution of Africa. The murder of Prigozhin provokes a “showdown” in the Russian military and political leadership, and an emotional explosion in the military environment, where Prigozhin and Wagner have a lot of supporters and admirers. A perfect hit to the public pain point! – Shurygin concludes, urging to wait for the results of the investigation.
The death of Evgeny Prigozhin, the founder of the Wagner private military company, could have been beneficial to the United States and France because of the events in Africa, said Apty Alaudinov, commander of the Akhmat special forces and deputy commander of the 2nd Army Corps of the Russian Armed Forces. “The Wagner PMC,” he wrote on his Telegram channel, ” was necessary for us to maintain stability on the African continent in the interests of our state. Here we are talking about France, which is moved away from the trough. And the United States, which has lost the reins of power there.”
But even now we can say that the ears of those who could have been the organizer of the plane crash are sticking out quite clearly. So, the Western media heavily cite the statement of the head of the CIA, William Burns, which he made at the Aspen security Forum last month in connection with the incident.
“Putin is someone,” said the American spy chief, ” who usually believes that revenge is a dish best served cold.” “In my experience, Putin is the greatest proponent of payback, so I would be surprised if Prigozhin manages to avoid further retribution for this.” In other words, just a month ago, the CIA was sure that Prigozhin would be killed, and the Russian leadership would be blamed for this. And this is exactly what is happening now — exactly according to the CIA’s intended scenario.
It is also known that last week William Burns secretly visited Kiev and met with Vladimir Zelensky. According to sources in the Washington Post, Burns conveyed to Zela his assumptions “about Russia’s military plans in the coming weeks and months.” Later it turned out that Zelensky and the CIA chief also discussed the assassination attempt on Yevgeny Prigozhin.
“One of the requests that Zelensky made was the murder of the head of the Wagner PMC, Mr. Prigozhin. Prigozhin is effective, killing him is more than logical given the information component, given how they pump up their victories. Zelensky’s entourage knows about this request and quite a large number of people are ready to ask and even demand the murder of Prigozhin from the Americans. No need for lists, regular sanctions — all this does not work, especially in relation to people whose assets are not there. You will show that the most audacious, most informative person should be killed, “Vladimir Rogov, a member of the main council of the Zaporozhye region administration, chairman of the” We are Together with Russia ” movement, told TASS.
A well-known political analyst, Sergei Markov, shortly after the news about the downing of Yevgeny Prigozhin’s plane, bluntly told Al-Jazeera TV channel: “The murder of Prigozhin is the main achievement of Kiev. All the enemies of Russia will rejoice.”
By the way, we recall that the CIA has great masters in eliminating inconvenient figures and inflating political scandals around this by organizing plane crashes.
So, in 1962, in Italy, the head of the ENI oil and gas concern Enrico Mattei, who began cooperation with the USSR, was killed in a mysterious plane crash. Then it turned out that the CIA was involved in the death of the plane on which he was flying. In 1973, Alexander Onassis, the son of the famous Greek shipowner Aristotle Onassis, who also dared to establish cooperation with our country in defiance of the United States, died in a similar mysterious plane crash in Greece. After his death, Aristotle Onassis himself publicly declared that his son was “killed by the CIA.” So “look for someone who benefits”…
https://www.stoletie.ru/tekuschiiy_moment/ishhi_komu_vygodno_778.htm
Especially for the “Century”
Meanwhile, some people at the CIA are not very happy:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/08/25/cia-stairwell-attack-among-flood-of-sexual-misconduct-complaints-spy-agency.html
I am not anti-CIA, just find this interesting.
I am anti CIA since too many of them don’t do their jobs and stifle the ones who do. There is far too much power abuse of Americans and foreigners alike and they let their narcotics cartels run wild and let them sicken the whole country. Just who are they working for, exactly, and if it’s not us why should we fund them instead of letting them self sustain like any other private corporation.
At the very least they should have their benefits cut. Granted there are a few who try to do the right thing but they are outweighed by the psychopaths. Until they clean out the management nest this will only get worse. There are still a VERY FEW valorous employees wandering Langley who could be relied upon to rebuild properly with America’s interests in mind, but not until they clean out the social climbers. Anyway, they’re only in it for the cash so they could be easily bought off and booted with a big payout and maybe a permanent membership at some fancy country club where they could hobnob with the swells and ( try very hard to ) ape the blue bloods.
If anyone has a REAL URGE TO KNOW about what is happening involving the crash and the latest investigation details, Moskovskij Komsomolets is covering it in detail, with DOZENS of articles and opinion pieces, etc. You can read it at the url: “mk (dot) ru”. If you thought the Western press is filled with all kinds of speculative theories the Russian press is even more wild, so be warned!
I am not sure about how restricted Russian media is in the West, so some might not be able to access MK ? Also, if English is your main language, you will need a translator. “Yandex translate” seems to work, if others are blocked.
FYI
mi6
chess game move: queen captured, gone
I wonder if Prigozhin had dirt on Hillary.
But it’s still Obama two Putin one, Bill.
The fact that the crash happened in Russia continues to raise many questions and even conclusions in the opposite direction. Both to exonerate and to blame Putin, because Prigozhin came from a war zone. Without any confirmation on what type of plane. First if there was an accident they don’t choose the location. And for me, who still think that Moscow collaborated with the staging of Prigozhin’s exile to Africa, the crash happened in Russia because it is the only territory where Russia can control the investigation.
And two more questions. Which engines were hacked? Does anyone know of any cases? Do you think that if it were possible to hack Rolls Royce engines or others, would this brand sell any more engines? And the same for avionics. It is no coincidence that in all plane hijackings we continue to see air pirates on board.
And I also continue to read that the tail separated from the plane ?! And I ask anyone who can answer, what tail? The horizontal and vertical stabilizers that you see intact on the ground? Because what is commonly called the tail of a jet has nothing to do with the pressurized fuselage where passengers travel! Because in this case I keep saying that the jet could hardly reach the ground in one piece as it did without a wing. And anyone on board would die automatically, almost certainly. If the plane was carrying someone.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/kremlin-rejects-absolute-lie-putin-ordered-killing-wagners-prigozhin
Well. The Kremlin stated Putin had nothing to do with it. I think we can all agree that the Putin theory is completely “shot down” now.
The breadth and depth of the various options (have not seen space aliens yet) amazes me. And the Hopium of the “He’s still alive Jim” crowd truly astounds me.
Having been married 3 times and having lived with another 12 of the truly most duplicitous animals that stalk the earth (women), I am all in for a good tin foil hat conspiracy. But at 63, I still retain the ability to think that just once, the simple answer is the choice.
Two-month anniversary of Russian soldiers murdered by Wagner. I’ll take simple for 2,000 Alex.
Could Andrei speak of MAGRAV(KESHE), Losing Military Supremacy shows the SU-24 buzzing the USS Donald Cook, another way to make flying things FALL.
The ones who stood/stand to lose the most with Prigozhin around are the United States and Ukraine.
I think it is pretty obvious it was Putin. Betrayal is a no no. When you think about what Prgozhin did, or attempted to do. Overthrow the government by force! Hello, everyone. No, that was unforgivable. Wagner was always going to be history after their little escapade.
No one is disputing motive, but the timing and methods don’t make sense for it to be Putin.
“At this point we are engaged in educated speculation.”
“Educated”?
Well maybe for Mr Johnson and some experienced Intel Officers, but for the rest, including this comment section… of fuk … NOT even close.
“Wagner is a creation of the GRU and Prigozhin was nothing more than a figurehead”….
Exactly…
AND this is a TIME of WAR, where the first casualty is TRUTH… and so far, NO ONE has a f n clue WTF is truly on-going… and I doubt we ever will.
The THEATRE of WAR continues
The rest is engaged in “throwing shit at the wall hoping that some will stick”.
Don’t know the source yet Larry, but there’s a scuttlebutt that surfaced today – the plane was sabotaged by the pilot and owner of the plane, who was NOT on the plane. Said owner/pilot has disappeared.
Off the record, but not speculation
For President Macron, it’s down to the wire in Niger 😂
The French ambassador to Niger was declared persona non grata.
He must leave the country within 48 hours.
https://t.me/intelslava/50811
There are also said to be indications that the U.S. has rejected military engagement as the French had planned in Niger.
The U.S. is determined to keep its drone base in Niger.
The French are in for a tough time.
The first offshoots of the BRICS meeting???
The one thing that sticks out to me is that both the “march for justice” and his death happened on the 23rd, both events had something odd things happened a couple days beforehand- 6 billion randomly found, prigozhin in Africa like nothing happened, almost all heads of ukr saying or acting like something big is coming. Idk 23 its a number known for western elites and symbolism. Just seems like they are involved one way or another. Wouldn’t be hard for them to find someone, even finding someone like the people mentioned in the article. With all the assassinations in Russia since the smo started. Obviously killing someone in country is not a problem. Just 2 question- whatever happened to the $6 billion that was “found” and was Niger the western elites redline.
Hi Larry, but what about the security controls on Prigozhin’s plane. would they not notice planted bombs ? these are not some kind of armatures but the seasoned professional military folks.
Also, the numerous shrapnel marks on the wings of the plane, are they not indication of surface – to air missile.?
Shrapnel marks on a video? I don’t even know how they missed Putin’s fingerprints.
“My first candidate for culpability (and I repeat the point I made in my last post) are Russian Air Force officers, who lost friends when the Wagner forces shot down Russian aircraft on June 23, and decided to conduct a revenge attack without regard to the political repercussions. They wanted Prigozhin and his cronies to pay for the deaths of their friends.”
This is pretty close to my own suspicion that ultra-nationalists were behind the incident.
It is no secret that Ukraine has operatives inside Russia who have carried out terrorist actions, and Ukraine must have had huge animus towards Prigozhin and Wagner for all the Ukrainian soldiers they killed in Bakhmut. Hence, as long as we’re speculating, I think that Ukrainian actors should remain in the conversation regarding potential suspects.
The wing. No sign of explosion. At first sight they sabotaged the attachment to the fuselage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pIjaiwlwo4
As of now, watching the general and coordinated reaction by the Western media bitches, all pointing at unison at Putin and the Kremlin as perpetrators, even with offers for the Wagner members to turn against Russia and join the Ukrainian junta in their fight, points all the way to Western intelligence…. helped in that endeavour by some Russian traitor/-s inside Russia…
For the rest, “The Orchestra” published in its TG channel ( I dunno whether official and unofficial..since fake channels in the name of one and every Wagner commander are being publicized through TG leading to hacks and viruses into your computer…”The Orchestra” channel have already warned that no Wagner commander has started any TG channel, or at any other social network for that matter, so far…) the most interesting I found, and which IMO debunks all the accusations against Putin, are the declarations by Aleksei Fyumin, close and confidence ally of Putin in the regions, his former chief of security no less, who stated that the demised Wagnerites “were no traitors” in any sense, amongst other succint unmistakeable clarifications with regard their great service to the motherland and their heros condition….
No chance of this being Ukrainian operatives from the SBU? The timing during BRICS summit is a black eye for Putin, it killed innocents other than Prighozin, which they don’t care about, and he was the figurehead of the victory at Bakhmut.
I find it highly interesting,
how much energy is spent on operational-geopolitical squirrel speculation.
This is how intelligence agencies work.
New Eastern Outlook has been banned from the internet
There goes another one
They’ve been providing some of the best analyses on the internet for many years
It’s still there, but under the (dot) su domain. Try “journal (hyphen)neo.su “
Only those that planned the crash, carried it out, thought through the consequences of it know, the rest of us could only guess.
Two things are undeniably true even if not mentioned or mentioned only in passing by almost everyone commenting on the tragic event, the abrupt cancelling of the ‘alleged’ coup, the march on Moscow, and the Prigozhin’s dog-like loyalty to Putin, the former chef had been biting, biting almost implausibly severely everyone but Putin, neither in public nor in private was he disloyal to the man that made him, furnished him with protection, stood by him even if pretending not to, for Prigozhin it was the bastards surrounding the vozhd, Putin was never to blame.
The coup, competently engineered by Prigozhin without the whole of the musicians’ orchestra involved, was to draw out into the open the leaders of the rebellious elements in the Armed Forces before they were to do stupid things like taking over the command of the special op in Ukraine, and it did, the coup lasted as long as the genuine yet unrealised coup leaders revealed their cards, it’s not just Surovikin, there were others that got moved either to the musicians, other duties, or got dismissed, people like Michail Mizintsev.
Could Putin have withdrawn the krysha for his former chef, after he met the musicians in the Kremlin to ostensibly patch up, as he did for Navalny? Yes, unquestionably he could, but his calling Prigozhin ‘a traitor’ was a ruse, a cover to imply the coup was for real.
It’s as close to impossible as it gets for Prigozhin to betray Putin, he would have done everything for him, in the end he may have lost his life for the vozhd, or he may have not, we shall see.
The remaining rebellious siloviki must have felt betrayed by Prigozhin’s stopping the march to Moscow, seeing it was a fake, they must have felt confident to act to bring the plane down knowing full well it’s bad for Putin, the question now is ‘is it Putin or they who comes top’.
Next NATO country gets a persona non grata
Rebels in Niger have asked the German ambassador to leave the country within two days, AFP reports.
https://t.me/tassdenews/70781
This is where the next EU-NATO hut is burning.
AM Baerbock will surely sort it out with her linguistic and technical temperament. 😣
Song-Africa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p5PK3dmVQE
On a related note:
US financial aid packages buying luxury cars, luxury real estate and resort homes for the Zelensky-led criminal syndicate in Kiev
https://abeldanger.blogspot.com/2023/08/us-financial-aid-packages-buying-luxury.html
To Hell with Prigozhin. He was a traitor who got what was coming to him. He was a loathesome gangster thug and a leech.
I wondered when that last video from him in Africa continuing the joke that he was in battle with Wagner against western terrorists, that he had just signed his own death warrant.
He was up to his old tricks and there was no way he’d be allowed to get away with that. I was not surprised when the creep was righteously assassinated a couple of days after I saw the video.
I don’t know who did it, but I applaud them.
Hello Larry,
the “The Final Countdown” between the intelligence agencies is on full power.
Unprecedented and dynamic, IT -driven.
Anyone who has been out of the business for about three years is just an outsider.
Snowden info has no value today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw
Before Prigozhin claimed the Russian MOD was deliberately witholding ammunition during Bakhmut operation and causing excessive Wagner troop casualties. Recall in June he provided video evidence that the Russian military had fired missiles from behind , targeting and killing killed his soldiers. This was BEFORE Wagner forces shot at the helicopters. Then he marched to Moscow. The likely perpetrators are the same rogue elements in the Russian MOD responsible for targeting the Wagners Prigozhin tried to warn Putin about
Recall that he was lying about everything he could. You should also watch “video evidence” again. Those two camp fires are a good laugh.
Cue Bono? CIA trough a cutout of course did it. Like you say for all the reasons Putin didnt do it. I’d also add there were innocents on that flight like pilots and who knows who else. Putin is not in that business and would have had GRU dispose of him quietly if he wanted him dead.
Prigozhin claimed the Russian General Sergie Shoigu was lying to Putin. Shoigu is the most likely candidate to have ordered the hit. He had means, motive and opportunity.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12228381/Wagner-mercenaries-killed-RUSSIAN-missile-strikes.html
Ther is exactly one god thing about The Daily Mail 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI
Prigo is not dead!!!Stop speculating and chew on this subject.
He is chilling with Elvis.
Just wanted to provide one last note because I’ve been waiting and I still haven’t heard anyone mention that this isn’t the first time Prigozhin has died in a plane crash! In 2019 in Congo, Prigozhin died for 3 days. And finally I see a reference in the UK press.
https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/prigozhin-wagner-alive-russia-plane-crash-b2398536.html
Prigozhin is not the loss, it’s Utkin.
Live by the sword.
Ukraine is in a desperate situation. How do they win? Regime change in Russia.
Western media will automatically unite in blaming Putin. Key Western governments believe such blame could help topple Putin, at least sabotage BRICS, which the West fears will badly damage.
US and several NATO members have huge political liability if Ukraine/NATO seen losing proxy war against Russia, which will greatly affect US global hegemony in foreign policy, military, economic, and monetary dominance
Probably proposed by Ukr intel agency, but approved and assisted by at least two other NATO intel.
Required Prig insider help
Larry, if you did not watch Scott Ritter’s Ask the Inspector show today, you may want to watch at least a few first minutes where he mocks your agreement with his analysis today on Judge Nap’s show.
Aside from the rudeness of that, the least I can say that I was surprised or rather shocked at his passionate change of stance and 180% reversal of what he said here just a day before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKDeANGcao&lc=UgwEZUUZtcLCIXxlGf54AaABAg !
In that interview with the judge – right after the news of the crash and even BEFORE he learned of the RF gov-s confirmation that Prigozhin was on the plane ! – he VEHEMENTLY proposed that it happened because he was a traitor to Putin and he could not forget the betrayal! He did not mention Putin as a definite culprit, of course, but most definitely implied this.
I immediately commented on this OUTRAGEOUS accusation and sent him a letter of protest saying that HE is now the traitor of the people he claimed to understand and asked him to refrain from the vile accusations without the proof – at a minimum at the time that the MAJORITY of Russian people deeply mourn the death of their heroes! I also said that Russians will never forgive HIM for implying that their beloved leader would commit such atrocity.
I, of course, do not dare to assume that he took what I personally said to heart but maybe I was not the only one. However, this DRASTIC change today just shocked me when the person I deeply admired – up until now – reversed his talk SO drastically in the matter of a day. He talks now as if he is aghast and appalled about even the suggestion that “Putin’s done it” while just a day before he as much as accused him himself. Luckily, the Internet never forgets. Neither would I.
Ritter displays that obnoxious feature that Pompeo embodies – bombast.
I think he gets carried away and his tongue races ahead.
I have found him to be far too assertive and definitive and to inflate his own importance. I do not see his claim to experience since no one in the West has experience of this kind of warfare as practised on the Ostfront – either on scale or breadth
It is conceit. Russia is reliving the situation foreseen in films like „White Tiger“ (2012) of resurgent Nazism invading from West – US has no conception of such history and no NATO soldier has ever engaged with a force as powerful as Ukraine in 2022
“Can’t spell Ukraine without UK”
Scott Ritter’s supremely damaging Agent Zelensky videos on YT and Rumble, are a precise statement of Agent Zelensky’s BRITISH pedigree, handler none other than Sir Richard Moore MI6 CHIEF himself.
Scott Ritter definitely did hit the mark!
I think Putin is a hero of historic proportions. But when I first heard of Prigozhin’s demise, I also first thought that he died for his coup. After weighing the circumstances, it became abundantly clear that Putin would never have done this, wrong timing (BRICS, Africa), wrong modus operandus, and from Putin’s video message it was clear he wasn’t going to exculpate himself by herofying Prigozhin, but that he was also giving no hints that his just deserts had been served. Finally, the qui bono question firmly settles that Western powers were behind this, likely supported by the Ukraine (given the clues that Budanov e.a. gave).
I now even wonder if the ‘coup’ was in fact manufactured to draw out the true traitors. Surovikin has completely disappeared, as I am sure have some other less in the limelight.
Being Slavic, I can confirm that we don’t do complex plots, and do fight amongs each other in the most unconvenient times. You can bet your ass the mutiny was real.
SERGEI SUROVIKIN now is the very boss of wagner pmc…..with putin&ru-MOD placet
I have perused everything, Larry,
I can’t discount anything other than that Putin did not have anything to do with this whatsoever, ( however, a rogue element in the Russian military is not discounted). My view is that is it a targeted assassination by the DGI with the help of CIA and Russian assets within Russia. Payback is coming that is for certain!
In russian politics showing any weakness will cause your long term downfall. After watching the video of putin talking about it; perhaps prigozin became a made man like tommy in goodfellas. Not all was forgiven.
Goodfellas – Tommy gets made
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_edfZ0Z4is4
For shits and giggles, I think Prigozhin is still alive. The Russians were/are pulling pranks on the westerners and they are/were ramping up the the intensity every time. The Americans fall/fell for every one of their charades. It’s laughable how many people fell for the coup story. The Americans and the Russians are leagues apart in the cranial sector. The Americans are coming head on to a date with reality and it won’t be pretty, hopefully it’s salvageable.
p.s. I spent about 8-9 years in the USA, knew many people like Larry. Americans aren’t bad, it’s the government that is the cancer. Or the deep state as you might like to call it. For what’s it worth, I’ll put my life on the line for such Americans.
Re: “Or the deep state as you might like to call it.”
A sample of your deep state, perhaps?
Neocons and Other Malignancies in the American Body Politic https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/neocons-and-other-malignancies-in-the-american-body-politic/
The Orchestra channel at TG ( which seems to be just a channel started by a person to compilate news about the renowned Russian PMC…not an official channel of them…) has published a kind of chronologic record /history of the Wagner PMC through its intervention in events throughout the world in the last years…..
WHY PMC “WAGNER” AND YEVGENY PRIGOGIN ENTERED HISTORY :
2014. Yevgeny Prigozhin creates the PMC “Wagner” in St. Petersburg, the fighters are sent to the territory of the LPR. In August, the forces of the PMC “Wagner” liberated the villages of Khryashchevatoye and Novosvetlovka, and in early September, a detachment of “musicians” of 40 people stormed the Lugansk airport.
2015. Wagner divisions take part in the battles for Debaltseve. In the summer of 2015, the first detachments of Wagner PMCs arrive in Syria. After the start of the Russian operation in Syria, the fighters of the unit take part in the battles in mountainous Latakia on the border with Turkey.
2016. Starting from February, the assault detachments of PMC “Wagner” have been fighting in the vicinity of Palmyra. March 13, 2016 a Su-25 of the Russian Aerospace Forces attacks a PMC camp in the El Bardo area, several fighters die, the commander of the 4th SHO Andrey Bogatov (“Tramp”), the future Hero of Russia, loses his arm. 27 March 1st SHO Ratibor storms Palmyra. Immediately after the liberation of the city, the “Wagnerites” fall into disgrace: they take away their equipment and withdraw their personnel to the Russian Federation.
2017. After the capture of Palmyra by ISIS militants in December 2017, the Orchestra units are fighting from the T4 airbase to Palmyra. On March 2, the 1st SHO of Ratibor again takes the city by storm. In addition, Wagner PMC detachments are liberating gas fields north of Palmyra, restoring power supply to Syria.
In the summer, Wagner PMC fighters are involved in the battles for the Akerbat fortified area. After the liberation of the area in September 2017, units of “musicians” break through to Deir ez-Zor, releasing the city besieged by IS militants. Following the Wagner PMC fighters cross the Euphrates, gain a foothold in the area of the village of Hasham and put an end to the liberation of Deir ez-Zor, clearing the last IS fortified area on the island of Khuveija Katya.
2018 – 2021. US aircraft inflict a massive airstrike on the Wagner convoy near Khasham. At the same time, since the beginning of the year, the Orchestra has been opening an African direction: the first instructors appear in Sudan and the Central African Republic. PMC assault units are taking part in the storming of Tripoli, supporting the forces of the Libyan National Army (LNA).
After the start of fighting in the CAR in 2020, the local military, with the support of PMC assault detachments, push back the militants from Bangui, clear the territory of the CAR in a short time and restore order. Also, PMC instructors begin to work in Mali at the request of the country’s government.
2022. Since March 19, Wagner units have been actively participating in a special military operation on the territory of the DPR and LPR. On May 8, Wagner assault detachments storm Popasna, which ends with the defeat of the AFU grouping. Following this, the Orchestra units liberate Svetlodarsk, clean up the territory of the Uglegorsk TPP and go to the outskirts of Artemovsk. The “Bakhmut meat grinder” begins.
2023. Assault detachments of “Wagner” under the command of Anton Elizarov (“Lotus”) take Soledar by storm. Problems begin with the supply of ammunition, in which Yevgeny Prigozhin and the leadership of the PMC blame the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. After 224 days of fighting, Bakhmut was liberated in May 2023 by the forces of the Wagner PMC – during the battles for the city, 20,000 soldiers of the unit died, of which 10,000 were volunteers from the prisons.
In June 2023, PMC units go to rear camps to rest, but on June 23, Prigozhin pushes columns of fighters and equipment to the “March of Justice” across Russia. On June 24, Wagner PMC fighters enter Rostov and begin advancing towards Moscow. After an agreement with the President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko, by the evening of June 24, units of the Wagner PMC stop the march and begin redeployment from Russia to Belarus.
By the end of the summer of 2023, Wagner PMC units began training with the Belarusian military, and also returned to tasks in Africa. On August 21, an appeal by Yevgeny Prigozhin from Mali is published on the continuation of the work of Wagner PMC on the Black Continent.
I have no idea about the accuracy of these facts/fates, but, giving the account some credibility, you have here that the Wagner PMC fighters were being harassed and literally bombed, periodically by two forces, the US military and sometimes the Russian one….
It seems that they had/have a serious feud with some sector of the Russian military, thus pointing at that nothing of what is happening looks in any way mashkirovka, but a fight between those holding power since ages in Russia and those who use to fight directly its battles and die in them…
Also, by the account, the Wagner PMC seems to be/have been the most effective military force in erradicating IS/ISIS/Al Qaeda/Boko Haram/ Jabhat Al Nusra/( wel,, you name it…), that is, extremist jihadism in every corner of the world, suprassing in effectivenes the most astounding military powers, the US and Russia….
This seems to have been well understoood by the Russian population, except may be people like Surkov and Ksenia Sobchak ( currently vacationing in Marbella, where it seems her familiy travels every summer since 1990…as if nothing would disturb this woman´s privileged life….), hence the espontaneous memorials and homages throughout the territory of the Russia, and I would say it is being understaood also by the people abroad…
Obviously they were amassing quite way too much fame and prestige, in Africa, in the Middle East, in Russia, in detriment of those who hate competitiveness and meritocracy and keep imbricated between the fabric of power as a cancer with no merit whatsoever….
It is reported that the memorial built, amlongst many throughout Russia, to the fallen of the Wagner Group in Rostov on Don is dismantled every night by some unknown criters…but the people keeps rebuilding it every morning and through the day….
I guess that this is people who, eventhough Russians in name, have no idea about the quality of the Russian soul, since they have none, forgetting that in spite of all the efforts, outside and inside Russia, after the fall of the USSR, the Russian people never forgot Stalin….
It is obvious that the Wagner Group had quite a few enemies inside Russia, especially amongst the ranks of power….the CIA had it easy thus as they have direct lines for deconfliction…..
You can take out whatever law you may want on signing in and pay allegiance to Russia, but, for what it seems, such signature means nothing for some, they will pass such law by said part as toilet paper, as it is happening in many of our countries right now where we are being sacrified in the altar of the powerful and privileged so that they can keep their lifestyle….
Amongst the gifts who decorate Wagner memorials, and who are thrown to the dustbin every night by soulless haters, apart from hundreds of carnations, there are a lot of drawings from the Russian children…..
Both are restored in the morning, so that the portraits of “Chef” and “Wagner” are not alone….as if they were abandoned people….who have no family or motherland who love them…..
It is said that both children and drunk men always say the truth….
Wondering how many children´s drawings have some in their offices….
https://youtu.be/cfdzc7g5wFE?feature=shared
Is Prigozhin really dead, why would he travel on the same plane as the rest of his commanders? From what I hear they always used two aircraft.
There were two planes. The other one landed safely.
Suicide: ho ho ho. This is unbelievable. There’s an old Texass joke that applies: “Rattlesnakes don’t commit suicide.”
I have no reasons to say this, but I believe it was a bird strike. How could anyone know which plane to place the bomb? How did they defeat airport security? How did they avoid Prigozhin’s personal security? How to design a bomb that wouldn’t just blow the wing off, or be too small, and allow Prigozhin’s escape?
The only truth in this article is that no commentator knows anything but the basic facts. Prigozhin died in a plane crash.
“First notes of a march”….
https://youtu.be/Q63nxh1aVZ4?feature=shared
Lorsqu’un avion perd son aile et que les réacteurs sont sur l’empennage, il est normal que l’empennage soit arraché, les forces aérodynamiques déviant brusquement le fuselage tandis que les réacteurs se comportent comme des gyroscopes.
Une perte d’aile par fissuration est l’effet d’une maintenance négligée lorsque le pilote n’inscrit pas ses vols pour les cacher. Ce syndrome est connu du fait que cela est arrivé aux trafiquants de drogue au début de l’aviation de ligne. Il est possible que les activités cachées de Prigojine contre le ministère de la défense en soient à l’origine.
Les expertises ne laisseront aucun doute entre missile, bombe et accident par négligence d’entretien.